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| Quote ="Kosh"The problem with that being that it would require RL to come up with a model for running a pro sport that has evaded every other pro sport for decades, if not longer.
The RFL strategy has been to modernise the sport to make it more media and sponsor friendly, thereby attracting more income from TV deals and direct sponsorship. They have also encouraged clubs to grow crowds as much as they are able. I'm not sure what else can be done TBH.
I was in favour of the 50% rule when it was first introduced, long before it would have given any possible commercial advantage to FC. Club chairmen have proven time and time again over many decades that they will overspend in the hopes that success on the pitch will follow and somehow that will bring in enough cash to balance the books. The 50% rule was specifically designed to stop this self-destructive behaviour, or at least limit it. And it worked - sort of. Then the clubs decided that they didn't like it any more and it was removed. Personally I think that was a mistake but opinions will vary.
A smaller league might well be a sensible approach, but as you point out how many clubs would vote for that if they thought they might be one of the clubs sacrificed 'for the good of the game'? There is also the possibility that Sky would reduce the TV contract for a smaller league with fewer games to televise and we'd be back to square one.
A last possibility would be to reduce the cap drastically to the point where overspending was impossible. This would result in a massive drop in the quality of the competition as the best players left, but might guarantee the long-term viability of clubs without rich boards/sponsors. It could just as easily destroy the sport altogether as Sky and sponsors abandon the game due to the poor quality.
I'm not sure what the answer is TBH. I am sure that it won't be a simple one, and that the ideas put forward in Hudgell's letter don't even come close.'"
The 50% rule, I assume, is hard to manage (for clubs and RFL alike). Plus it might discourage affordable 'investment', locking in success a handful of currently dominant and well-supported clubs. A flat cap has the advantage of simplicity and, in theory at least, should make for a more even competition. I'm not against it entirely or in principle, I just think it creates as many problems as it solves.
I'm not sure that NH's letter contains any suggestions, although I guess we've only seen page 1(?). He clearly thinks 14 teams is not sustainable - but that is just stating what he believes to be a problem.
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| Quote ="dum-dum"When you say "one of them", I assume you mean us. Your smart enough to know that none of us could know how much if any, likewise with Bradford, Catalan, Salford, Wakefield and Crusaders.'"
Actually it's not that difficult as any such monies would appear on the clubs accounts which are available for a small fee.
Bradford, for instance, received a loan of roughly £700k in January 2011 which was basically an advance on their Sky money. They then had to pay this back out of the proceeds from selling their lease to the RFL - hence their current cash-flow crisis.
Similarly Crusaders received a loan from the RFL that was secured against their stadium, which the RFL now part own.
The other clubs you mention got nothing AFAIK.
The RFL aren't exactly minted. It wasn't so long ago that they were in serious debt. I'm not sure why so many people seem to think they have huge wads of cash to throw at clubs even if they wanted to.
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| Quote ="barham red"The RFL need to stop looking at expansion / the international game. We currently have 2 comps (superleague and NRL) that seem to attract spectators and are established competitions.
The constant chasing of widening the areas the game is watched is a foolish campaign. People outside of the heartlands are not interested, will never be interested in any kind of numbers and if we put a club in Birmingham for example no one will go.
The magic weekends are prime examples, the only people who went were people who travelled to watch their clubs. The sport got covered on sky as a sport that hired out a big reception room but didn;t have the friends to fill it.
We need to concentrate on what we have, keep the money within the local clubs and stop the idea that we will ever have a national game to rival RU.'"
Once again, I invite you to come up with a figure for how much cash all these things are costing the game. Because unless you can do so then I don't understand how you can claim that stopping them would help.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Once again, I invite you to come up with a figure for how much cash all these things are costing the game. Because unless you can do so then I don't understand how you can claim that stopping them would help.'"
I can't come up with a figure but I will state it will eventually lose fans. My point was that the whether financially or in a time / effort expenditure the RFL seems more focussed on chasing an expansion / international game then it does looking after its core business.
My points where the international game will never expand even if we royally thumped the aussies.
The game will never thrive outside of its current areas, no nes interested.
Whilst time and effort is being expnded in these areas the fact one of the biggest teams in our game is going to the wall, a solution is needed and that should be the RFLs priority
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| Whats the problem Rovers fans jeez..... never seen you all so tetchy. A letter from Hudgell and instantly it's about what Hull fans think, what they are doing on thier board, who will be on here talking about a begging bowl.
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| A leaked letter over the April 1st weekend and in the week leading up to the derby,
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| Quote ="barham red"I can't come up with a figure but I will state it will eventually lose fans. My point was that the whether financially or in a time / effort expenditure the[u RFL seems more focussed on chasing an expansion / international game then it does looking after its core business.[/u
My points where the international game will never expand even if we royally thumped the aussies.
The game will never thrive outside of its current areas, no nes interested.
Whilst time and effort is being expnded in these areas the fact one of the biggest teams in our game is going to the wall, a solution is needed and that should be the RFLs priority'"
Exactly my thoughts, it is not always advisable to consider diversification until your core business is stable and profibable, it something the RFL should have been giving prority to for the last few years imo, walk before you run springs to mind.
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| Quote ="dum-dum"When you say "one of them", I assume you mean us. Your smart enough to know that none of us could know how much if any, likewise with Bradford, Catalan, Salford, Wakefield and Crusaders.'"
So why bother with this then?
Quote ="cravenpark1"I agree with neil it is time the rugby league did get of its fat a..e and did something like [ustop propping up teams like London[/u and look after the rest of the teams'"
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| Quote ="Seventies red"Exactly my thoughts, it is not always advisable to consider diversification until your core business is stable and profibable, it something the RFL should have been giving prority to for the last few years imo, walk before you run springs to mind.'"
They probably look at the profits of the RU world cup and are told to expand for bigger tv rights.
But the fans want it small time so I don't why they bother.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"They probably look at the profits of the RU world cup and are told to expand for bigger tv rights.
But the fans want it small time so I don't why they bother.'"
I'd love to have a thriving international game like ru but I'm a realist and understand it will never happen. People will not swith onto a new sport like that.
The only way it would work is if a hybrid rl/ru sport was devised akin to 20-20 cricket. even thats a long shot.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"They probably look at the profits of the RU world cup and are told to expand for bigger tv rights.
But the fans want it small time so I don't why they bother.'"
I'm not a big fan of RU but one thing i will say in its defence is that it has a far superior maketing department than the RFL, it never ceases to amaze me that the RFL have appeared to blow so many opportunities to aggressively promote the game of rugby league in the past.
Its marketing strategy has been at best very averarge for many years imo.
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| We had a big international game, we didn't try to expand it well enough.
Could you imagine some of our fans reaction if they lost players mid season for internationals?
RU fans seem to accept the games bigger than the clubs.
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| Quote ="Seventies red"I'm not a big fan of RU but one thing i will say in its defence is that it has a far superior maketing department than the RFL, it never ceases to amaze me that the RFL have appeared to blow so many opportunities to aggressively promote the game of rugby league in the past.
Its marketing strategy has been at best very averarge for many years imo.'"
Of course it does, they have educated people with great networks running it.
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| Quote ="barham red"I can't come up with a figure but I will state it will eventually lose fans. My point was that the whether financially or in a time / effort expenditure the RFL seems more focussed on chasing an expansion / international game then it does looking after its core business.
My points where the international game will never expand even if we royally thumped the aussies.
The game will never thrive outside of its current areas, no nes interested.
Whilst time and effort is being expnded in these areas the fact one of the biggest teams in our game is going to the wall, a solution is needed and that should be the RFLs priority'"
Expansion isn't being targeted for the lols - it's being targeted as the only viable method of growing the game and thereby increasing income. A game played only along the M62 corridor is less attractive to sponsors and TV companies. There's also little evidence that the RFL is actually ignoring 'heartlands' teams or offering them less assistance than 'expansion' teams, with the exception of a few tweaks to the quota rules.
The RFL already loaned Bradford a hefty sum to bail them out of what they were assured was a temporary cash flow problem. Guess what? It wasn't temporary. They then bought the lease to Odsal to help them out again, and STILL Bradford's board couldn't make the books balance. What else were they supposed to do? Falling crowds at Odsal and their BOD's serial failure to spend within their means has nothing at all to do with 'chasing expansion'.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Of course it does, they have educated people with great networks running it.'"
Yes it does but, can you remember a few years ago and the quote from Will Carling on rugby union,? "If the game is run properly as a professional game, you do not need 57 old farts running rugby."
Afterwards they had a complete clearout at the top with a more dynamic type of personell taking over who changed the way the game was run, perhaps the game of rugby league would benifit from such a change at the top.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Expansion isn't being targeted for the lols - it's being targeted as the only viable method of growing the game and thereby increasing income. A game played only along the M62 corridor is less attractive to sponsors and TV companies. There's also little evidence that the RFL is actually ignoring 'heartlands' teams or offering them less assistance than 'expansion' teams, with the exception of a few tweaks to the quota rules.
The RFL already loaned Bradford a hefty sum to bail them out of what they were assured was a temporary cash flow problem. Guess what? It wasn't temporary. They then bought the lease to Odsal to help them out again, and STILL Bradford's board couldn't make the books balance. What else were they supposed to do? Falling crowds at Odsal and their BOD's serial failure to spend within their means has nothing at all to do with 'chasing expansion'.'"
I'd agree with that. Crusaders was a disaster, but I imagine in was inspired to some extent by the promising start Catalans had made and continue to build on.
On the International game, I understand the comparisons with RU, but the diverging histories of the two codes mean that they are only valid up to a point. In some ways I'd even consider de-coupling more from the Aussies, as it'd give us some flexibility in adapting our competition to suit our needs. Personally I think SL has to come before international game, looking to association football in this country/continent as our example, rather than RU or cricket, in that one area.
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| Quote ="Seventies red"Yes it does but, can you remember a few years ago and the quote from Will Carling on rugby union,? "If the game is run properly as a professional game, you do not need 57 old farts running rugby."
Afterwards they had a complete clearout at the top with a more dynamic type of personell taking over who changed the way the game was run, perhaps the game of rugby league would benifit from such a change at the top.'"
It's been an appalling mess these last few years though.
If Bradford do fail, or even if they don't (which of course I hope is the case), then there needs to be a debate. 3 clubs in administration in 2 seasons would be worrying.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"It's been an appalling mess these last few years though.
If Bradford do fail, or even if they don't (which of course I hope is the case), then there needs to be a debate. 3 clubs in administration in 2 seasons would be worrying.'"
I would agree on that point inparticular.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"If Bradford do fail, or even if they don't (which of course I hope is the case), then there needs to be a debate. 3 clubs in administration in 2 seasons would be worrying.'"
Coincidentally the 2 seasons following removal of the 50% rule...
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| Quote ="Kosh"Coincidentally the 2 seasons following removal of the 50% rule...
'"
Was their a press release why it was removed Kosh?
I can't remember or find any.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"I'd agree with that. Crusaders was a disaster, but I imagine in was inspired to some extent by the promising start Catalans had made and continue to build on.
On the International game, I understand the comparisons with RU, but the diverging histories of the two codes mean that they are only valid up to a point. In some ways I'd even consider de-coupling more from the Aussies, as it'd give us some flexibility in adapting our competition to suit our needs. Personally I think SL has to come before international game, looking to association football in this country/continent as our example, rather than RU or cricket, in that one area.'"
Crusaders were a slow-motion car crash largely due to the RFL failing to heed warnings about their original owner. I agree that over-confidence following the success of Catalan may have played a part, although the two clubs weren't particularly comparable.
I'd say that SL and the international game have to have parallel development rather than one being prioritised. We aren't ever going to have the domestic fan base to model ourselves on soccer and therefore - like RU and Cricket - need a viable International game to add to the sport's commercial attractiveness. IMO of course.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Coincidentally the 2 seasons following removal of the 50% rule...
'"
It's been gone longer than that, hasn't it?
I don't ever recall it being an issue for us. Binned off after the Wigan farago, possibly?
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Was their a press release why it was removed Kosh?
I can't remember or find any.'"
Not that I can recall. I remember it came out of a meeting with the clubs but not what specific reasons were given.
I [isuspect[/i that one or two of the larger clubs were feeling the pinch commercially and rather than tighten their belts convinced everyone to remove the 'constraint' on spending.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Crusaders were a slow-motion car crash largely due to the RFL failing to heed warnings about their original owner. I agree that over-confidence following the success of Catalan may have played a part, although the two clubs weren't particularly comparable.
I'd say that SL and the international game have to have parallel development rather than one being prioritised. We aren't ever going to have the domestic fan base to model ourselves on soccer and therefore - like RU and Cricket - need a viable International game to add to the sport's commercial attractiveness. IMO of course.
'"
In cricket and RU, the international game is the commercial attractiveness and the counties/clubs are the added extra.
It isn't a case so much of prioritising, as recognising and playing to our relative strengths. Although the scale is massively different, football, with it's main focus on civic rather than national pride, offers a better comparison, IMO. This is compounded by our not being able to beat Australia and France not being able to beat us. Or any realistic prospect of that changing, barring the odd freak result maybe once a decade. 'Representative' gives more options than 'International'. The Exiles is a decent concept, but so was a Yorks-Lancs origin series, but you need fans to buy into it.
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Interesting to note that flat salary cap was set higher than it is now, a decade ago.
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... -1.8m.html
That's a big decrease in real terms.
So the 50% rule was originally binned off a long time ago - was it re-introduced for a period?
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Interesting to note that flat salary cap was set higher than it is now, a decade ago.
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... -1.8m.html
That's a big decrease in real terms.
So the 50% rule was originally binned off a long time ago - was it re-introduced for a period?
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