Boxweir I agree with every single word in your post, (other than I think there should be only 10 clubs in SL as bottom 4 are only making up the numbers, which is just wrong, look at London vs Warrington this weekend, crowd of 2,500)

Since the franchise system came in, it has just felt more and more as the seasons have gone by that the RFL have forgotten that there is rugby league outside of Super League.

Just so you know. That is the article that Mike Smith has in the League express his week.

What happened to boxweir's posts ?? I wanted to read that again this morning but its gone



Some very inspirational words of encouragement spoken and I for one agree not only is it time but long long overdue for an overhaul of the current system.

Promotion and relegation should definitely be on the cards lets give the championship something to play for other than pride. How are the clubs expected to
invest without receiving some potential for promotion. Not to mention retaining players as in the current system these guys are working extremely hard in
order to raise their game, but lets face it without moving clubs how can they raise it much further.

There are a couple of different ways to look at the word league 1League a group of sports clubs that play each other over a period for a championship.
2 In League conspiring with another or others.

I would suggest the current format creates a Super In League which is presently conspiring to keep others out rather than share the spoils.

I have checked with the admins of the site.
There was a problem with spamming sites and that the article was posted in full. With no link to it.
These two are not allowed.

No problem with boxweirs posts as such just the way this was done.

If boxweir is reading this then please send a email to support.rlfans.com and it can be all sorted out.

Jim.

Looks like the revolution been nipped in the bud,shame rules is rules though. lol
Looking round the other sites before the admin pulled the plugged looked like there were signs of a proper debate opening up,hope you can sort something out boxweir,and get the message out there,but got a feeling it wont be on this forum.
Oh well not to worry there another season ticket offer out there now,so the usual suspects will be declaring open season AGAIN on Mr Fawcett, READY,AIM FIRE,

Copyright law, is copyright law. If someone breaks it this site gets into trouble.

No one is trying to stop debate on this subject. people can discuss the topic all they want there cannot post the whole of the article.

So please carry on.

.

Trying to arrange for Yorkshire Radio to debate this issues on their Rugby League show on Thursday night 6pm to 7.20pm.
Fingers crossed that we can get this aired and a ground swell of support for promotion and relegation. Listen if you can before going to the game.

A quick message on behalf of boxweir to Guess Who , He has emailed the admins 3 times and had no joy

Any suggestions for him? cheers

Hiya.

I have just put a post in the admin/mod section about this.
As soon as i hear anything i will pass it on.

Jim.

Hi boxweir. Sorry for the delay. If you follow this link it will be sorted out. It may take a day or two seeing as its the weekend. support.rlfans.com/index.php

Hi boxweir. Sorry for the delay. If you follow this link it will be sorted out. It may take a day or two seeing as its the weekend. support.rlfans.com/index.php

Hi all it's boxweir, firstly thanks for trying to help guess who but the link you gave me was what I did on Tuesday and since then I have sent 4 e-mails explaining my side and asking for an explanation as to why they have blocked me and I still haven't heard anything. Mean while I have registered under the exact same name and contact details as my previous username the only difference been the username I am using now and they have activated me



I personally think we have rattled someone's cage because when I posted on all the clubs forums everybody was talking about it and what a great article it was and how everyone nearly agreed that the franchise system in place is a joke and clearly isn't working as it should especially the super league clubs. The points made about spamming sites is rubbish because the amount of forums that I went on and there were the same stuff posted through out such as charity stuff, well isn't that spamming. The point made about copyright is wrong as we have had full permission from mike smith and league express to use it and so on, this isn't a pop at you guess who so please don't think that but it just seems someone doesn't want this debate starting because if it built momentum and clubs started to get on board with it then where would it take us, probably to a place someone doesn't want it to go.

This article is posted in full on Totalrl.com. There are several threads on there about p and r and franchises. There is definitely a debate going on throughout the game re the ring fencing of SL. One fact that has emerged is, asMike Smith has pointed out in his article, that when Sky first came along, The RFL was bypassed and the SL organisation signed the contract with Sky and has exclusive rights to dish out the money as they see fit. The original SL crew was a backroom meeting of the big clubs and the whole game was highjacked by them.

My opinion is that the SL is too small. They need to increase the number of teams in it and the top championship teams need to be allowed in if they meet the necessary criteria. The RFL need to speak to Sky before the next contract about getting a bigger deal for an extended SL. SL has been ringfenced and expansion or P and r to it has been denied because of the present teams being in charge of the cash from Sky and refusing to share it out with more teams.

If they will not expand SL then more cash needs to be flowing downwards to the Championships. With more TV sports channels out there than previously, Sky, ESPn, BBC, al Jazheera more TV money should be available if a concerted, coherent strategy is adopted by the game to negotiate with the TV companys.

When the CC1 is expanded next year, in theory the lower leagues should have enough votes to outvote the SL clubs at the RFL but the money will still be controlled by SL. No one wants the full story to be re hashed as to what went on at the start of SL because it was all so underhand and no real chance to consider the whole implications of the deal was given to the clubs. They were co erced into voting for the deal with the threat that if it wasnt agreed to right away the offer would be withdrawn. I am not so sure that Sky had demanded that or if the SL backroom cabal pushed it through.

Cant comment on this as i dont know anything about it. Apart from trying to help.



You did spam sites. You put a post with the full article. Which had just appeared in League Express.

You say you had the, "full permission from mike smith and league express".

You did not say that in the post you put on here. The admins/mods are not mind readers, so how would we know that?

We have to protect this site. If that means taking posts down or banning someone. Then sorting it all out later. To stop this site getting into trouble, then i have no problem with that.

You also say, "I personally think we have rattled someone's cage".

Try started a topic on the issue whilst staying within the AUP and see if it gets taken down again. I bet you it wont.

Let's face it - the governing body are all in it together, looking after themselves and not doing anything to promote any club outside Super League. After all, they're handsomely paid for doing what? They answer to no-one - especially the inneffective, so-called 'Controller of Referees' - Sturat Cummings.

The BBC (and let us all remember who pays for their employees - including Gobby Paul) couldn't give a damn. It's about time (as I have said before) that the Championship Clubs got together and formed a meaningful alliance, instead of looking after their own - never to be obtained - goals.

If the Clubs won't do it then the supporters and fans MUST!

Andy Burnham MP is writing an open letter to the new chairman of the RFL on this very subject, he too is dismayed at the way the game has gone and is going, and would like all Rugby League supporters to back him by signing said letter. Please follow this link and add you name to the list..... andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html

Andy Burnham MP is writing an open letter to the new chairman of the RFL on this very subject, he too is dismayed at the way the game has gone and is going, and would like all Rugby League supporters to back him by signing said letter. Please follow this link and add you name to the list..... andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html

Quote ="forwardpass1"Andy Burnham MP is writing an open letter to the new chairman of the RFL on this very subject, he too is dismayed at the way the game has gone and is going, and would like all Rugby League supporters to back him by signing said letter. Please follow this link and add you name to the list..... andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html'" He is not the only one speaking out against it. Sam Tomkins has his say menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... mfort-zone Also Eamon McManus, chairman of St Helens has spoken out against it.

Quote ="forwardpass1"Andy Burnham MP is writing an open letter to the new chairman of the RFL on this very subject, he too is dismayed at the way the game has gone and is going, and would like all Rugby League supporters to back him by signing said letter. Please follow this link and add you name to the list..... andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html'" He is not the only one speaking out against it. Sam Tomkins has his say menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... mfort-zone Also Eamon McManus, chairman of St Helens has spoken out against it.

Here is the link to the full Andy Burnham MP Article, I didn't have it when I put my original post on.... www.andyburnham.net/ Sorry it's exactly the same......

Here is the link to the full Andy Burnham MP Article, I didn't have it when I put my original post on.... www.andyburnham.net/ Sorry it's exactly the same......

I was interested to see Boots N All this week when Eddie posed the question to Paul Cullen and Shaun McRae. Understandably both supported the current system which will probably come as no surprise to anyone.

McRae talked about the current license system being about business sustainability. A nice word, but what does that actually mean. Money over an agreed period and allows planning and forecasting possibly. What about the Dulls/London who have all had issues?

I know on the Wire forum Mike Smith's article was discussed and to be honest got some disappointing answers from in my opinion short sighted fans. They talked about the jump from part time to full time. If I recall correctly the Cougars were in the main full time for a season to two prior to our grand final win. I'm not sure but I guess others in our league may well have players on retained full time contracts at that time. This outside SL is now unheard of. With that in mind, surely SL has created a gap in this sense.

SL clubs in the main would appear to be richer and the clubs outside poorer. Is that what SL was all about?

More money has to come into the Champ from SL to bridge that gap. Is that ever going to happen? Are SL clubs ever going to hand over £100K? I think we all know the answer to that.

Let's face it, RL is not football and does not have the same income stream or revenues. However, for me opening up P & R would involve drastic changes to the admin of our game. Widnes are a classic example of how this system does not work. I could be bias and probably am, but I'm not convinced the Cougars would have suffered the same issues Widnes are having now if we had been rightly promoted. Look at London who also got promoted from nowhere. Has that ever worked?

On Boots N All they talked about Catalans being an example of how the franchise system works? I'd first like to know how much money has been thrown at them by the RFL. Then I'd like to know how this corresponds to that being provided to the standard SL club to see if there is a clear disparity. I bet there is.

This post probably creates more discussion that answers, but I for one am disillusioned by the admin and set-up of this great game. I think now is the time to change for the better.

I think the first thing that has to be addressed before P&R can be brought back is making the Championship a vibrant, viable competition that's able of producing teams of a sound footing that can be promoted in to Super League. The product on the field is superb, but who's turning up to watch it? There were 700 at our game last week, why? Is there anybody in the Championship at the moment that would add more to Super League than a current side?

Would P&R be purely based on League performance? Or should criteria need to be met? Personally I think you need criteria perhaps along the lines of.
- Minimum ground capacity of 10,000
- Average attendance exceeding 3,000
- Not been in administration in the last 10 years
- No salary cap breaches in the last 5 years
- Debt (excluding loans for stadium improvements) does not exceed £250k.
- No debt owed to HMRC, the RFL, other clubs, club directors or club staff including players.

Is there anybody in the Championship at the moment that would add more to Super League than a current side?

Though it pains me to say it ,Personally dont think you have to look further than Post Office Road to say without doubt yes .

I've visited Fev, as well as many other clubs a few times over the past few season not just as a speccie but through work and I've got to say on most occasions the professionalism of the place off the field shines through in comparison of most if not all Championship Clubs and puts a lot of the SL Clubs to shame as well.

I would tend to agree with Rach in that adding Halifax or Feav would add more than having London who in fairness would not meet the attendance criteria you outlined. The RFL have clearly tried to expand the game outside of the M62 corridor, but under several guises now has London worked? I think P&R has to be about the on field performance again, rather that off field capability. I agree there is a need for a minimum criteria but promoting any team who have not finished top or won grand final to me is ridiculous.

I spoke to a guy a last Thursday at the game,he said this time last year the excitment was there watching Keighley Cougars even playing so called lesser opposition,this year it all feels a bit flat.Why because there was promotion and each each game ment something,this season we are playing for,well maybe a chance to put your name on a list with 4 or 5 other clubs so in 3 years time some nameless group of people get to decide if you can join there gang,and people wonder why the crowd is not what it should be,by the way some of you may know the guy, Mike Smith.

By the way the Union game is just about to go through the same thing league did many years ago.With 2 teams who should be fighting it out to play in the top flight,being told no,I believe at least one of those clubs may take legal action,does that sound familiar.

Automatic promotion and relegation is essential.

If all the clubs knew that there was automatic P&R and for the long term, they would over time gear up to be successful.

You don't need to set minimum standards such as above; so long as your ground has a safety certificate that should be enough. If, over time, your attendances are not big enough for whatever reason, you probably won't get promoted anyway as you won't have the revenue to finance a winning team.

You get league points deducted for an insolvency event, salary cap breaches etc anyway.