I remember certain posters saying that O'Loughlin was only in the team and captain because he was Andy Farrells brother-in-law, despite the fact that Lockers had captained every team he had played for.

I think it probably was, or was certainly startting to, but when Madge came in and introduced the leadership team, it allowed Lockers to concentrate more on his game and let others lead the team. We were blessed in 2010 with some excellent leaders, that are perhaps missing now (wasn't McIlorum captain in the derby?), but now Lockers is one of the best leaders in the game. I'm just glad he plays for us!

Very good point.

I think that introduction of the leadership team did help him to concentrate on his game and it proved a master stroke by Maguire.

Lockers is now twice the player he was when he was given (too early imo) the captaincy.

He also plays way better when the pressure is off him (I think he tries too hard when the team is suffering and gives away too many penalties- which I now believe is down to his desire to do well for the team, rather than anything else, but still...)

He is the best 13 in SL, but not the world. He wouldn't walk into a world 17 either. Not a popular view on here no doubt, but we have to be realistic.

Great player though and certainly one of the first names on the teamsheet.

Even if Sinfield didn't kick goals, that would make no difference. A different class to curly tops.

You're right, he's a few notches below

Apart from anything else Sinfield isn't, and never has been, a 13. He plays there only to accommodate Burrows and McGuire and, now Burrows has moved to Hooker, very rarely starts at loose. Interestingly he is also favoured at ANY position but 13 internationally, even hooker (where, incidentally, he had his best games in a national shirt). If you think Sinfield is a better 13 than O'Loughlin you want your bumps feeling mate! His whole game is that of an organising half. He simply doesn't have the physical presence to be regarded in any way a forward. That's not to say he isn't a fantastic player though. Quite the opposite in fact. Let's put it this way; if he was in this Wigan team he would play at half and O'Loughlin at loose. I suspect that, Macnamara's vagaries notwithstanding, that will also be the case come the world cup.

As if other fans would start!



You support Wigan, you prefer O'Loughlin. I support Leeds, I'd rather have Sinfield. It's quite lucky then, this way we're both satified.

Sinfield is the best goal kicker in SL He has to play for England if only for this.

Overally though he falls behind Lockers as an out and out 13.

I hope that you Wigan fans are referring to Lockers being the best 13 in SL and not the world?
I'd say that Sam Burgess should be the starting 13 for England without a doubt in the WC?

I ment world
Sam ain't a 13 for me because your modern day 13 is just as much a pivet and playmaker at times as your fullback
Don't ask my opinion of the best player between them because I don't want to have to think about it





And may not like the answer

really made me chuckle

O'Loughlin is by far the best orthodox British loose forward currently around. Thing is not many teams play with a ball playing loose anymore as they sadly opt for an extra prop.

Burgess at 13 is a good option, helps the go forward as a 3rd prop, will be very beneficial against the better teams.

How about stick with Sam at 13 for the first 20, then move him to prop replacing another one of the starting props bringing on a fresh Lockers after the first 20?
Then leave him on all game.

McNamara is coach.

Burgess will play on the wing and Lockers at prop to accommodate Brett Ferres at loose forward.

I'd go Lockers at loose and S.Burgess at second row along with Westwood and Farrell/Hock on the bench depending on form.

Based on nothing but gut feeling I'd go with:

8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Mossop
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

I agree but IMO I don't get the Ellis licking
Before he went oz he was nothing but a decent strong running player
I think way too much hype is put on the nrl so any1 who does well is exaggerated to another level (if that makes sense)

For me Lockers is the best traditional 13 in SL. Admittedly I've not seen a great deal of NRL this season but I always did like Greg Bird as a traditional 13. Got a bit of house about him too.

Or another perspective is that before he went to Australia he was arguably the best and most consistent 2nd rower in SL and already one of the best in the world. He was an absolute powerhouse in attack and defence, that's why they wanted him.

Then, arriving in the NRL, he took it by storm and became Wests player of the year and one of the most feared second rowers in the competition.

So in short he's been one of the best second rowers in SL his entire career and then one of the best in the NRL for the years he spent there, I think that's why people 'lick his booty', because he's incredibly good.

So why is he so consistently average at international level? It can't just be because he's playing for England because Burgess, O'Loughlin and Hock have all outshone him

But is he actually and better in defence than H or Westwood last year(dropped abit this year IMO) does he break more than hock has he more handling skills than faz
Don't get me wrong he's a good player but just not as good as people mainly the media make out
I wouldn't start him in my England pack

I've got to say that minus the hype I'm not quite sure why Ellis gets talked of as being a huge player for England. He's a good player and always has been but he's a grafter, nothing more, nothing less IMO. He is consistant in attack making half decent yards but doesn't really do anything out if the ordinary and his defence is good. He certainly doesn't influence the game with the ball like Hock or Westwood can.

I'm not saying he's over rated saying this but rather the player I'm going to compare him to is underrated, he's a similar standard and type of player to Harrison Hansen.

My thoughts exactly - both are players anyone would want in their team/squad as they do all the basics right and you miss them when they are not there but neither is a game breaker/match winner.

Horses for courses.

Did you really just write that?

Ellis is in a different league to players like Hansen.