[quote="Stu M":vjvsbuer]I think that's a bit unfair. Last year was a poor environment for any young lads to thrive. With injuries and some hammerings, confidence was low and there weren't enough experienced heads around any of the younger lads to support. Whitby is highly rated but made his debut at home to HKR when they absolutely smashed us and Wellens (not for the first time) got his selections horribly wrong. Vaughan is another who was Lancashire and England Academy captain but struggled at times especially when partnered with Ritson. He needs some size on him and there is still a question mark over whether or not he will play centre or second row. Dagnall is another who whilst he hasn't had his chance yet, looks very promising and has done well for Lancashire and England Academy. I think Rush was wrong with his comments as he gave the impression that we had a Class of 92 and then of course we struggled badly last season. Our recruitment has been poor the last couple of seasons admittedly but over the last 6-8 years we have recruited really well. Overseas signings like Sironen, Matautia, Coote and Paasi have been some of our best and then we got some gems like Batchelor and Bentley from the Championship- (Bentley at Saints was good as has Batchelor bar last season) Even before that we bought Walmsley from the Championship. James Bell has been another good signing so I think more often than not we have got it right. That said we have got it badly wrong for this season with not signing one if not two centres and at least another prop and it looks like McManus has misled us by saying we always spend up to the cap as it looks like Matautia isn't being replaced. Sadly (for us) it looks as though financially we just haven't got the money at the moment. The Covid loans are really hurting us which has affected recruitment[/quote:vjvsbuer] I think the financial situation should be concerning for Saints. I am not signed up to the golden generation though and, even if they all show promise this season I think Saints will come up short. Robertson and Stephens have shown promise but the others have not been tested at SL level. With a plethora of players off contract there looks like there will be a high turnover of players unless the seasoned pros can turn around their form from last season, the problem is where are their replacements going to come from? In addition, failure to secure Lees and Knowles would leave a gaping hole in the pack and the Welsby to the NRL should be of concern. I suppose time will tell.

[quote="Stu M":1gyk2mko]Didn't want to start a new thread for this so thought I would put it on here.. I've mentioned before on here that I am a Utd fan and coming out of the ground last night, what struck me was how normal fans were. No- one was sulking or moody, it was just people chatting normally, laughing, talking about plans for New Year. The result was expected (or at least not a shock) This is the situation Utd are now in and whilst I don't for one minute think we will be relegated, we are in the mix and Amorim was right to discuss it. This got me thinking about Wigan... In the 2006 season ( I think it was) when you were down at the bottom, how did it change you as fans? Obviously Wigan like Utd are a huge club and it seems unthinkable but I know some Wigan fans that said they enjoyed that season more than most because the fans really got behind the team and every game felt like a Final. Clearly you wouldn't swap that season for anything before or after but do you think that the shock had a positive impact on the club?[/quote:1gyk2mko] The first half of that season was absolutely awful, we'd let a very good team either get too long in the tooth or they'd gone off to RU, add on we'd lost Central Park and there was a general malaise around the club. We can't give Bran Noble enough credit for what he did, the atmosphere did change and it really was a fantastic turn around in the second half of the season. Looking back I think it's fair to say that season caused a total reset at the club and we're reaping the benefits now with how they've re-engaged with the town. Next season will be a challenge, we've got a massive target on our backs now but I think we've got the squad to be right up there again, getting through that six or seven weeks without French/Field relatively unscathed last season should give them the confidence to know they can handle a bit of adversity.

I think it gave us the shock we needed to make some positive decisions in better recruitment and overall direction of the club and it fired up the fanbase which was tending more towards apathy. I think we would have continued to stumble along for quite a number of years if we hadn't had that dip. The big difference between Wigan and Man U is that Man U have no soul left at the club. Liverpool and Arsenal still have it, they know what the club stands for and it's place in the community, what it means to the fans. Wigan RL live and breath it everyday from top to bottom thanks to Radders, Peet, Lenegan and now Mike Danson. The partial buyout by Jim Ratcliffe at Man U has made things even worse, cutting contributions to player welfare charity is another sign of the petty, short term vision that shows he has no understanding what binds a club to its fanbase. They are on a downward spiral with no sign of any plan to get them out of it and judging by the decisions made to date haven't got the management that understands how to do it.

[quote="Big Steve":2g3tuopf]I think it gave us the shock we needed to make some positive decisions in better recruitment and overall direction of the club and it fired up the fanbase which was tending more towards apathy. I think we would have continued to stumble along for quite a number of years if we hadn't had that dip. The big difference between Wigan and Man U is that Man U have no soul left at the club. Liverpool and Arsenal still have it, they know what the club stands for and it's place in the community, what it means to the fans. Wigan RL live and breath it everyday from top to bottom thanks to Radders, Peet, Lenegan and now Mike Danson. The partial buyout by Jim Ratcliffe at Man U has made things even worse, cutting contributions to player welfare charity is another sign of the petty, short term vision that shows he has no understanding what binds a club to its fanbase. They are on a downward spiral with no sign of any plan to get them out of it and judging by the decisions made to date haven't got the management that understands how to do it.[/quote:2g3tuopf] they had a UTD fan on Sky Sports news yesterday , i think he was from one of the fanzines and he echoed what you are saying about decision to cut costs have been at the expense of the clubs standing in the community, when the ownership changed I thought the only change would be mores sports science based with ideas taken from the Ineos cycling team. It now seems more about boosting share holder benefits

[quote="Stu M":13ij38rc]Didn't want to start a new thread for this so thought I would put it on here.. I've mentioned before on here that I am a Utd fan and coming out of the ground last night, what struck me was how normal fans were. No- one was sulking or moody, it was just people chatting normally, laughing, talking about plans for New Year. The result was expected (or at least not a shock) This is the situation Utd are now in and whilst I don't for one minute think we will be relegated, we are in the mix and Amorim was right to discuss it. This got me thinking about Wigan... In the 2006 season ( I think it was) when you were down at the bottom, how did it change you as fans? Obviously Wigan like Utd are a huge club and it seems unthinkable but I know some Wigan fans that said they enjoyed that season more than most because the fans really got behind the team and every game felt like a Final. Clearly you wouldn't swap that season for anything before or after but do you think that the shock had a positive impact on the club?[/quote:13ij38rc] I would swap it for 1980

[quote="Stu M":2eyrx0o6]Didn't want to start a new thread for this so thought I would put it on here.. I've mentioned before on here that I am a Utd fan and coming out of the ground last night, what struck me was how normal fans were. No- one was sulking or moody, it was just people chatting normally, laughing, talking about plans for New Year. The result was expected (or at least not a shock) This is the situation Utd are now in and whilst I don't for one minute think we will be relegated, we are in the mix and Amorim was right to discuss it. This got me thinking about Wigan... In the 2006 season ( I think it was) when you were down at the bottom, how did it change you as fans? Obviously Wigan like Utd are a huge club and it seems unthinkable but I know some Wigan fans that said they enjoyed that season more than most because the fans really got behind the team and every game felt like a Final. Clearly you wouldn't swap that season for anything before or after but do you think that the shock had a positive impact on the club?[/quote:2eyrx0o6] For me as a teenager at the time, it was about something which I took for granted (i.e. Wigan always winning things / Wigan being there or thereabouts every season) being in real jeopardy. I already had a season ticket so was already attending games in the early part of that season but that risk of something very bad happening with the threat of relegation just brought out some extra passion and fervour. I think with how attendances swelled and atmospheres improved it showed that many of our fan base felt the same. Dare I say, a few came out of the woodwork to get behind the team in our hour of need. Noble, Fielden and Dobson coming in really made a difference to the playing side of things and the team began to play with some confidence. We won 10 of the last 12 Super League games that year and the two we lost were both away fixtures and we lost by 2 points and 1 point respectively if memory serves me correctly. I know opposition supporters will point to the "spirit of the cap" breach but this was a loophole Wigan exploited at the time to our advantage rather than a blatant and flagrant "we are going to break the cap ceiling" approach and it is a loophole which the RFL subsequently closed. With you speaking of the unthinkable and the club being huge, something else I also remember was the rumours that Wigan wouldn't be relegated regardless and Dave Whelan appeared on Sky Sports to squash those rumours saying if we finished at the bottom of the ladder, it'd mean we deserved it and we would be relegated. It seems strange that he'd need to go on TV and say that but such were the rumours at the time.