But you could argue, that based on performances, King isn;t ready for the first team. If he was a young local lad, he wouldn;t be getting anyone backing him.

I think many of us have defended him, wanting himto come good, but he just hasn't done that.

If we get a half break and pass the ball to King on the wing from 70m, he will get caught. Do the same with Penny, and he will score most times.

Neither of them have covered themselves in glory, but I feel that is a lack of a goo partnership rather than them not being able to tackle.

I am far more forgiving of a young developing talent, than I am of an International player on an International salary.

Of the two, we would have to carry Penny far less than we are carrying Matt King right now, ie, using Fridays game as a form guide. If people put Kings pedigree to one side, and judge him on the now, he wouldn't get near to your side. All the things that people hammer Penny for like tackling, positioning etc, King is weaker than Penny at, so putting him on the wing is hardly going to make these things go away.

totally different things.

There both defensively poor but i believe King has more to offer in attack, that is my reasoning for keeping him on and not Penny.

What does he offer? Guile, good hands, sidestep, pace, power, what ?

He's stronger, better at making yards away from the line, more experienced in his decision making, better under the high ball.

I'll give you the yardage.

The second bit is just daft.

The third bit, I can't recall him catching a high ball, Penny is pretty good in the air. I'd like to see us kick more to him, he scored from a high kick at home to Saints last year, did very well to ground it etc.

But he's not. How many high balls has Penny dropped? How many has King caught? Probably a very similar number. When King arrived we thought we were going to get lots of high kicks from Briers to him and for that reason you think he must be good. But we haven't seen it. I saw him catch it before it went 10m on Friday night.

King wasn't fantastic, we've pretty much summed that up but he was not as weak as his winger and that's nothing to do with him being Australian.

We had 4 players under the age of 21 playing on Friday, 3 of the 4 gave it their all and really put their body on the line and you could tell they were fighting for a place.
The left side had a bad game defending the line. I don't think Penny offers anything in terms of defending the line, he is a weak link, he relys too much on King and if King does have a bad game then Penny certainly will.
We need players putting their bodies on the line, working as a unit and not relying on key players to get them out of trouble.
Riley impressed me on Friday as did Blythe as they really did put the effort in and made the most of their opportunity.
Sometimes a player has to look for the opportunity and not keep relying on players to set them up.

How many times can a wiger put his body on the line during a game??? For the forwards its clear to see. Penny has always been enthusiastic and commited from what I have seen.

That being the nature of a centre-winger partnership at any level of the game.

In my opinion something has to chamge on the left with either King or Penny being dropped because to me the left side of our team is virtually a non existent attacking threat and its also a defensive liability, the problem we have is a lack of strength in depth in the backs as ive always said that Paul Johnson is a right sided 2nd rower and Chris Bridge to me is an out and out stand off so we have little other options in the centres.

Paul Johnson has good pace for a 2nd rower but not for a back, Jimmy Lowes has to be careful here as to what precedent he sets for our players performance wise because to me Matt King`s performances have simply not been good enough since he arrived.

The coach has to make a stance at some point and say to a player that your performances are not good enough to be selected for the 1st team, Matt King has never been dropped or subbed yet due to his poor performances and its about time that he was judged on what he does on the pitch rather than his so called reputation from the NRL. The bloke is an expensive cart horse,

Judging by how poor Catalan were against Huddersfield its possible that both King and Penny could look good against them but to me that would just be papering over the cracks, in the big games our left side simply won`t be good enough especially in defence.

Like i said before Matt King arrived he was playing in a very good Melbourne side where most of the time he would be left with a run in or a close range barge over because of good work from the likes of Cooper Cronk and Greg Inglis, his height was also an asset to the Storm for high kicks. He`s certainly never looked the type of player that will be a creator that can open up defences with nimble footwork and out and out pace. His lack of centre skills was one of the main reasons that he played on the wing for NSW and the Australian test side, again his size and height suited the way that both NSW and the Aussies played the game as he gave them options in the air and also with his size at close range to finish off great team work.

The concerns i have for this season are that Michael Monaghan has no pressure on him to perform, to me he will always be at 7 if fit. The same can be said of Matt King, as long as he is fit i can see him playing as we have little other options at left centre.

The only way i can see that we can replace Monaghan from 7 is to play Micky Higham at scrum half and put Monaghan at 9 to see if he can reproduce his Manly form, with the lack of strength in depth at scrum half i see no other option if you wanted to change things other than put Bridge at 6 and Briers at 7 but thats been tried and it didn`t get us that far.

I don`t have the answers other than to try and find some cheap Quantas deals to return them both back to Aus, economy class of course or excess baggage.

To some extent i agree, although Johnson is not the quickest for a centre. However during the back end of 2007 him and Penny had a good partnership going in the few games they played together. And there was less discussion about Penny's defensive abilities as he had a strong defender in Johnson along side him.

i don't think that's accurate about 07, i'm pretty sure that johnners was done for the season before penny got in the side, i may be wrong but thats what i recall.

Johnson played centre on four occasions alongside Penny in 2007. SLStats isn't always great at showing which wing a player is on, but we should probably assume they were on the same side.

When Penny scored 2 against Hudds, and 3 against Salford, Johnson was at centre.

i thought johnson was out injured from early may, whichever was the second time we played saints down here when he got kicked in the head by sculthorpe.

Quote ="Dave T"Johnson played centre on four occasions alongside Penny in 2007. SLStats isn't always great at showing which wing a player is on, but we should probably assume they were on the same side. When Penny scored 2 against Hudds, and 3 against Salford, Johnson was at centre.'" In those games you mention Paul Johnson was only up against Shane Elford and Kevin McGuinness, neither of those 2 are any great shakes and neither are blessed with pace. Here are Paul Johnsons stats for 2007, just click view by the side of any game to see the stats of a particular game. www.slstats.org/p283/Paul%20John ... #Year_2007

Quote ="Dave T"Johnson played centre on four occasions alongside Penny in 2007. SLStats isn't always great at showing which wing a player is on, but we should probably assume they were on the same side. When Penny scored 2 against Hudds, and 3 against Salford, Johnson was at centre.'" In those games you mention Paul Johnson was only up against Shane Elford and Kevin McGuinness, neither of those 2 are any great shakes and neither are blessed with pace. Here are Paul Johnsons stats for 2007, just click view by the side of any game to see the stats of a particular game. www.slstats.org/p283/Paul%20John ... #Year_2007

Quote ="Rob Wire"In those games you mention Paul Johnson was only up against Shane Elford and Kevin McGuinness, neither of those 2 are any great shakes and neither are blessed with pace. Here are Paul Johnsons stats for 2007, just click view by the side of any game to see the stats of a particular game. www.slstats.org/p283/Paul%20John ... #Year_2007'" Yep, used that side to quote the stats I did. I wasn't advocating Johnson in the centre (in fact, quite the opposite if you look back at my previous quotes), I was simply clarifying one of Cat' points. Cat - Johnson's last game that year was in mid July - Round 20...

Quote ="Rob Wire"In those games you mention Paul Johnson was only up against Shane Elford and Kevin McGuinness, neither of those 2 are any great shakes and neither are blessed with pace. Here are Paul Johnsons stats for 2007, just click view by the side of any game to see the stats of a particular game. www.slstats.org/p283/Paul%20John ... #Year_2007'" Yep, used that side to quote the stats I did. I wasn't advocating Johnson in the centre (in fact, quite the opposite if you look back at my previous quotes), I was simply clarifying one of Cat' points. Cat - Johnson's last game that year was in mid July - Round 20...

Henry was definitely at centre for part of the game against Salford, 'cause I remember him setting up one of Kev's with a Ronaldinho'esque pass.

I didn't go to that game as I had a christening that day, but looking at the team, Henry was on the bench, so did Johnson get injured in this game, as it was his last of the season...

i didn't think johnson played again after getting kicked in the head against saints, maybe they gave him a run out thinking his neck wasn't that bad.

Penny saved a try and almost saved another.....the targeting off him by his own fans is totally pathetic..especially when they are other jokers who cost us points.....Harrison and Carvell both dropped balls clearing our line which led to tries..if Penny had doen that he'd be getting hammered on here, we should be embracing the exceptional talent we have rather than trying to put him down, I understand that he is nowhere near the finished article but he isn't as bad as people make out.

M.D., you have to reliase the baying masses are waiting for another Mike Wainwright to appear.

We have already got one but he is injured at the minute. Either that or he has got sunburn from spending too long on the beds at Tantastic in Wigan.

That's exactly right, PJ got injured. Penny scored a second half hat-trick and would have had four, had Fa'afilli not produced that outrageous inside pass to put Clarke in under the sticks. The hat-trick try of Pennys being where Briers kicked it downtown, Penny caught the Salford player after giving him a 20 start, kicked it on for himself and dived on it over the line.

PJ started, Fa'failli played probably 50 mins at centre.