Spot On! How long can we wait for King to regain the form he sowed in the NRL and on his debut at Wire, hope Jimmy Lowes has the answers I dont.

So you are all agreeing that the King/Penny partnership doesn't work, regardless of who is to blame.

Surely the best solution therefore is change that.

As for Penny I can't make my mind up. I hold my breath in excitement when he gets a bit of space - its great to see a winger with such pace. Equally I hold my breath when the opposition fling the ball to his wing, but not quite in the same way.

The key problem is that whilst the kid is learning and improving we are dithering around and ending up exposed. If you want to be a serious contender for silverware this is unacceptable. I like him, I like his passion but I think I would rather he did his learning elsewhere for a while. For his sake and ours.

The Ade Gardner dissallowed try, Penny was too close to Matt King which created the space for Gardner to score but fortunatley for us a fraction of his foot clipped the line, if Penny had been positioned better Gardner would have had no chance of crossing as the option and space wouldn`t have been their for saints to attack.

Saints 2nd try scored by Ade Gardner, Penny ran in field to try and tackle Leon Pryce then all of a sudden he stopped and back tracked but by then it was too late as he had left his wing and that created the space for Gardner to score. Matt King was poorly positioned as well but we all know he is a defensive liability, if Penny thinks that their is too much of a gap in the defence then its his job to shout and wave players across, he shouldn`t have charged off his wing and come as far in field as he did.

Our left side is a defensice liability as well as being a virtually non existent attacking threat, Matt King is shocking but Penny is just as bad as and he can`t hide behind the rookie tag forever as he is racking up some first team games now and to me he doesn`t seem to be learning a great deal. Its a worrying combination that we have on our left.

I definitely agree about the 2nd one, he made a mistake, and realised a split second too late.

As for the 1st one, it is a tough one, as when he did stay out on his winger, Gidley just walked through. You often see wingers squeeze in at the corner, we do it a lot, so that is just part of the game.

i'm not criticising penny, but its the truth that the only time penny will do anything is if he has empty space ahead of him.

get johnson on the wing for safety and stability.

Has it occured to anyone that the last few games of last season Kevin Penny's defence was tough and well executed. There's a difference in the team now. The difference being Louis Anderson.

These are also my main concerns about having Penny in the team.

i've said this elsewhere and i'll say it again, i\'ll concede he's nowhere near the finished article, but i do not remember any defensive problems in his 10 or so games in 2007, i don't remember him being caught out of position or looking shakey or any other coaches attacking and exploiting him which you would expect, rookie player, debut season, he'll get targetted and shown up.

i've seen it so many times before with wire wingers over the years, kettlewell, eckersley, will cowell in his first couple of seasons, jamie stenhouse.

Save for the game at knowsely road where he got switched to opposite meli and knocked around a bit, it didn't happen, is it a coincidence that this perception has arisen since king joined the club?

Again, if he were that bad it'd be bloody obvious from game 1.

Please tell me your not suggesting what I think your suggesting?

I suggest you watch his tries against Saints at home last year again.

if i recall correctly he did have some defensive frailties in 2007 but nobody cared because he was scoring tries and he was a rookie.
i totally agree with king inside things appear even worse and as stated
in most of the constructive posts it is the left side at fault not a witch hunt for Penny.

That Louis Anderson comes out of line, drags king over leaving Penny all on his own? No i couldn't possibly be suggesting that as its far to obvious.

IIRC, in his first game, McGuire stole the ball very cheaply from him and ran over to score? I put that down to inexperience more than anything. I vaguely remember his first games, but surely you can't be saying that King coming in meant Kev couldn't tackle? Let's be honest, at times last year people were just walking over him, I'm sure it was Leeds away that Rob Burrow ran over him to score. He just flapped and had no technique; however, towards the back end this changed, he started tackling with great technique, stopping the player and even dumping some of them in the process.

I don't want to see Kev dropped just yet unless he's going to drop King as well, seen as King was probably more guilty of defensive errors than Kev, the only thing I fear is that his confidence will be absolutely shot, as will King's, and I'm not too keen on the idea of a left side absolutely shot of confidence after game 1, but then I feel we'll batter Catalans, so I don't want them to miss out on the opportunity to get a couple of tries and so on.

I bet Kevin Penny would look like a world beater playing with Gidley as his centre at Sintellins.

Put him outside Gleeson then.

You could say we already have a world class centre in Gleeson, should Penny move to right wing on a permanent basis outside Gleeson?

Because to me the King Penny partnership is just.......well there isn't one.

I think we need someone like Johnson at Centre, a defensively minded centre who while direct and guide Penny. Someone that holds the ground making the attack work harder and allowing Penny not to brake his own line or trying to cover the gap that King made.

yes he showed great defensive qualities when Gilmour left him for dead on the outside....... imagine if Gilmour had gone round Penny some of you folks would have needed a months supply of Tenna lady..........

Well that is certainly a thought. Hicks might then better at covering for the problems created on the left edge.

Good shout.
However earlier in the thread some of you guys shot down someone who said King offers more to a team than Penny. If you'd rather have Penny in your team than Matt King..I despair.

FWIW I'd give Penny time, he does come in for so much stick and it's not really fair on the young lad. I also agree that Louis Anderson is at fault more often than people realise.

That person would be me, they agree with me really but there to proud to admit it.

Not me, I'll admit to anybody that I'm wrong, but I tell you now, there's no way, if I was picking the team, right now, and the criteria was,

1. Merit
2. What they offered in an attacking sense
3. What they offered in a defensive sense

Well, 100 times out of 100, I'd pick Penny every time. (And I don't think Penny is blameless, just less of a villain right now. He's also improving elements of his game, I can't think of a single improvement in Matt Kings game since he arrived.)

Whether he's played well or not Penny would never in a million years be picked for Australia, King has, albeit on the wing.
King really wasn't as bad as people make out last year, he bagged a few tries, yardage was pretty good and when he doesn't pass half the time it's Pennys poor wingers discipline.

Still, I think everyones overreacting, I'd give it more time, if not throw Bridge at centre and King on the wing, Don't want Johnson there again tbh

I understand what you saying and i don't think that King is blameless, i just feel Penny isn't ready for 1st team football, maybe in 2 years but his game need a lot of improvement and in this day and age when Super League is getting better every year, i don't think we can afford to carry him when the stakes are so high and results matter probably know more than ever.

Having watched it again Penny was at fault for Gardners first try as we went rushing into mid-field to assist with a tackle from which the offload led to the try. Appart from that he had an ok game. It was 16-14 when he got took off and things hardly got better.

Also, why play an Aussie wing in the centre? He got skinned by Gidley for his second and just downright poor.

Hicks/King on the Win
Bridge/Gleece in the centre