My view of Ellis is that he's one of those players that is great/devastating in an already good side and just average in an average side.

He's the sort of player that allows others to play, in football terms he's a Claude Makélélé.

The sort of player who doesn't break the line but leaves it open for others, Richie Myler/Danny McGuire would thrive off Ellis.
In a team in which people aren't singing from the same hymm sheet he'd look pretty ineffective.

I think that's a pretty fair comment

An over egged pudding.

If you genuinely can't see how good Gareth Ellis is then you're not looking properly.

Since Gareth Ellis left Leeds we've also lost (amongst others) Brent Webb, Keith Senior, Danny Buderus, Ali Lauititi and Scott Donald all of whom did amazing things at the club, but the only one that's up there with Ellis as one we've really missed is Buderus. He does so much right and so very little wrong every single game - it's not a second rowers job to be eye catching, that's what the backs are for.

Agreed, and a lot of the time he was toe to toe with Westwood.

Ellis, for me, is one of those players who can do it, no matter how big and hard the opposition is. In fact, the bigger they come, the better Ellis seems to play.

This probably explains why his international career has been so ordinary and why he hasn't been such a stand-out at that level.

#rlmeltdown

And yet, dear William, he was undoubtedly a stand out in the NRL and you keep telling us that that's a higher level than international can hope to achieve owing to the poor English game, so what's the deal there?

He was player of the year at Wests Tigers several times which suggests he was very popular among his fellow Tigers players more than anything else, considering it's the players themselves who do the voting. On the playing front, Wests Tigers percentage win record was 52% when Ellis played but that percentage win record rose to 61.54% when he was absent. Those figures don't suggest to me that he was that influential or a stand-out for his club in the NRL.


Facing the Kangaroos at international level is facing higher level opposition than during weekly NRL rounds surely? I don't recall any stand-out performance from Ellis at international level against them. I do recall some extremely ineffective performances though.

Maybe I read different reports to you, but the impression I got was that he was respected right across the NRL, by players, coaches and journalists alike. As for your percentages, they're meaningless unless you're happy to list the opposition in the matches he missed. You probably reckon Tim Sheens knows a thing or two don't you? Well he said that "In my time here, dollar-for-dollar, he's been the best buy this club has had." But then he was probably joking.


I don't know, I mean do they even try against our lot? We're just international whipping boy rabble aren't we?

He's really 5hit, so hoepfully McNamara wont pick him in the World Cup

I wasn't aware that a player had to be a stand-out in the NRL to be granted respect. I'm sure there are plenty of other solid and workmanlike players in the NRL just like Ellis who are also respected in the NRL by players, coaches and journos alike. The likes of Aiden Tolman, Tim Mannah, Kevin Kingston and Ryan Hinchcliffe immediately spring to mind.


[url=http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rl-headlines/ex-rhino-ellis-has-to-go-back-to-basics-1-2205303Sheens has had quite a few things to say about Ellis[/url.


They did in the first half [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/4046521.stmHERE[/url and [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8334117.stmHERE[/url


That's what the international evidence suggests results-wise, and particularly so during the SL-era where we've won 4 out of 25 tests against Australia and 14 out of 51 against Australia & NZ combined with one series win and 14 series losses.

My opinion on Ellis is that he shouldn't be anywhere near the England team for the 2013 World Cup. He's no longer the player he was a few seasons ago (4 seasons of toil in the NRL has seen to that) but more importantly... the national side really needs to move on from the disaster of the 2008 World Cup where... apart from James Graham and James Roby... none of that embarrassing 2008 generation should still be involved at international level.