How you gonna go drop the best backrow forward in the country either completley or to the bench?


Who we play instead?

Jamie Jones Buchanan or Jon Wilkin?

No thanks.

I'd have a backrow of:

11. Ellis
12. S.Burgess
13. O'Loughlin / Buchanan / Ablett/ Wilkin / Westwood / Farrell

Then Hock on the bench. I think he'd be a liability to start

I disagree. He's not and never has been a liability either to Wigan or England/GB. He's a gamebreaker, an aggressiveand effective defender and an all round intelligent rugby league player.

For me though, I'd have Burgess at prop alongside Graham and Ellis and Hock in the backrow.

Yeah he's class, just that other side to his game, which if not controlled can loose you games

Totally agree. Hock has as much chance of winning the game as he does as losing the game, anyone who doesnt have westwood in the back row has lost the plot , he's a machine. Hock is a real strike player and i'd have him coming of the bench.

Burgess Roby Graham
Ellis Westwood
O'Loughlin

Hock is a fantastic player and he can do things not many forwards in world rugby league can but he can make errors and he can miss some tackles when either a) His head isn't on the game or b) He's tiring after a long stint.

With that in mind I think he'd give England his best coming from the bench to cause havoc in the latter part of both half's. He's at his best when he's fresh and that combined with tiring opposition could really give us some firepower.

I'd be looking at-

8-Graham 9-Roby 10-Burgess 11-Ellis 12-Westwood 13-O'Loughlin

14-Hill 15-Mossop 16-Hock 17-Burrow

That is a very handy pack and we have further options. The front row is beastly!!

Swap Mossop for Crabtree and I'm with you

That was my only 50/50 really. When Mossop plays like we know he can I'd have him in but certainly not on this yearsleague form.

While Hocks discipline is an issue, it's not really going to be solved with O'loughlin or Westwood. The problem with Hock is he gives away penalties he doesn't need to. It's not so much high tackles, the problem is he tries starting fights at the play-the-ball over absolutely nothing incidents. The last thing we need is him giving a penalty away when we have the ball. If he is starting a fight when we're 80 points up over a nothing incident, what's he going to be like when the games actually close and the Aussies start winding him up.

Ball in hand he's probably the best in the world IMO and will strike fear into the Aussies. But think Mcmanara needs to have a word to make sure he keeps his cool

I think Hock will be in the squad and start in the group games against the weaker teams. I do not believe he will start against Australia in the opening game or even be on the bench for that one. That game is crucial for England and the tournament. He may play against the big teams in the later stages depending on his early rounds' discipline and the fitness of other players.

Hock didn't do himself any favours in this tournement IMO. He was good against Wales but then for no reason at all started a bit of handbags for no reason what so ever. He's pretty gash for the rest of the tournement after that. He's 29 now so I doubt at this stage of his career he'll change his ways. He's one of the best attacking backrowers we have but it'll be a gamble to select him, I would but I'd start him on the bench.

To go off topic slightly, I also think Mossop hasn't done himself any favours in this tournement, I think if everyones fit I'd select Crabtree before him.

Fair calls. Though I think at the moment Hock would still be worth a bench spot, but maybe limit the time he has on the field - Ellis, O'Loughlin and Westwood are capable of pulling big stints even against Aus, and with the machine that is Graham maybe Burgess could be spelled in the back row.

8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Burgess
11. Westwood
12. Ellis
13. O'Loughlin

14. Hill/Mossop (in case Hill has 2nd season syndrome)
15. Crabtree/Mossop
16. Hock
17. Burrow

looks the likely pack (next season and injuries permitting of course).

No mention of NRL Regular Luke Burgess? Although he didn't get selected. I would rather have him on the bench over Hill/Mossop .

Crabtree, Hill and Mossop would easily be NRL regulars too. Imo those 3 still edge Luke, but you're right he should be in the squad and a potential bench spot.

Maybe I have missed something but I thought he was pretty poor this tournament, especially in the French games. He needs to learn when to stick or twist with ball in hand, it looks good when it comes off but he's made stacks of errors in the last 3 weeks and slack play like that will be punished against better opposition. How he got MOM in the first French game is beyond me, short of the BBC nominating him to ask him about the NRL.

He has to come off the bench if selected in the World Cup.

Any NRL forward which experience the level of intensity week in week out has to be on the bench over the aforementioned.

Luke proved the doubters and quite possibly himself that he could handle the NRL and improved tenfold. So why is he constantly over looked?

Because (whisper it quietly) playing in the NRL maybe isn't is hard as people will lead you to believe. L Burgess is not in our top 5 props.

I disagree, from the games I’ve witnessed; the intensity over 80mins of any forward pack is above anything ESL can offer.
Therefore, any English forward, who can hold is spot on a regular basis, deserves his spot on the International stage, over likes of Mossop & Hill.

Fortunately over the next few years, the English forward pack has strength and depth coming through, a nice headache to have for any decent coach.

Nice name Chaka........

And you are?

What measure are you using to state that Luke Burgess has improved tenfold? Could you explain exactly how Burgess has improved his game rather than just stating he is a better player because he plays in a better competition

He was renown for planting his feet when tackling & suspect of loose carries. In my opinion he has improved his game become more mobile and to do that in more intense game has only got to be good of the England squad.

I'm Mooka[u[ichaka[/i[/u!

Burgess had already improved imensely the season before he left Leeds, he was Leeds' best forward by a mile in the first half of 2010, he gives good go forward and has a better offload game than Mossop. I was convinced he would do well in the NRL, and he has. I also think he was in better form than the likes of Crabtree, and Mossop at the back end of the year, and deserved a run out for England. As I said earlier I remain unconvinced by Mossop, he's big and agressive but his form has been poor the last few months and if he doesn't improve he'll be lucky to get in the 17.

Crabtree had probably the best year of his career in 2012, was consistently carrying the Giants week in week out. His form couldn't really have been much better, end of the year included. Hull fans were nominating him for MoM when they hammered Hudds in the playoffs.