yeah well now you know how I feel when some saints retard posts that pryce is world class!!

there is only one world class player born in this country and that my friend is one Kieran Cunningham END OF

i agree sgt wilko, this thread was set up and since the first post there have been twenty odd posts jumping on the bandwagon.

yes he made mistakes, notably the 5th tackle which was 4th. every ref makes mistakes in every sport, but i think friday nights decisions were not mistakes in the main. He noticed unsporting antics and decided there was no disadvantages so why slow play down and penalise minor misdemeanors.

surely the referee is allowed to use his discretion.

Because pooperman, if not then we might as well just let eddie and stevo ref the game on tv. scrutisnise every decision and end up playing 4hours like american football.

truth in the matter is "pooperman" refs get the blame from the majority of losers fans! yes, wiganers.
And then from the winners, because a minority of fans are just grumpy ole gits!

So are we all agreed now?

The ref was shocking at enforcing the play the ball and the amount of holding down that was permitted was way over the top. Thaler is a weak and lazy referee, needed to set the stall out early with a few pens for holding down, then the players know where they stand and get their act together.

I take it you are fourteen years old and just going through puberty so I will ignore the pathetic attempt to rile me. If the ref uses his discretion, then he is getting involved Wilkos post was all about referees not getting involved and letting people get on with it.

Your context, like your wit, is very poor.

I am glad you agree that your post is poor.

if we followed your rules we would all be listening to

42 38 77 hut hut hut

I think it's you who is the child!! The game is over refed!! I'm board of ganson smith and bentham!! Most of the others arnt much better!! the fact that a saints fan posted in this thread that he would rather see 30 pens in a game and 12 trys than half a dozen pens and 4 trys says it all!! As I have already said I'm sick of watching the refs march teams around the park for 80 mins!! Of course as saints fans you want this!! And it's obvious why!! But most of you are unwilling to recognize your teams floors so we can't have a reasoned debate about it!!

the referee is there to police the established rules, otherwise the game would end up in a "free for all brawl" every match, the rules my friends have been devised over many years to produce an entertaining game and promote a fair playing field and if they are now to ignored just so the worst teams in the compitition can cheat their way to a win we all might as well start watching world wrestling . THE REF WAS CRAP AND DID NOT DO THE JOB BASED ON THE CURRENT RULE BOOK.

I said that and I still say it. On the assumption that the penalties were for genuine offences. An offence is still an offence whether the ref turns a blind eye or not.

Explain to me how Friday's game was under reffed. It was positively under reffed. If there is a such a term! Does a boxing referee not step in and pull two boxers apart when they start holding each other and it gets scrappy? The same principal applies. SL is about skill, speed,athleticism and entertainment. It is not a wrestling match. Give the penalties where needed and set the stall out that holding down won't be tolerated. That way you might get a skilful entertaining match without the 30 pens! Let the players push it to the limit and you get this slow, boring garbage that you seem to crave. I'm sure the great Wigan side of the 80's and early 90's wouldn't have liked being stifled by weak refereeing either. Then again I don't think the likes of Holdsworth was shy with the whistle unlike Bentham.

You still haven't explained how, despite all this woefully weak refereeing, we are still top and in the cup? Doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of pulling us down does it? It is ruining the spectacle though. Perhaps you really want that.

Persistent holding down to gain an advantage in defence is not minor. It used to be a sin binning, he never even had a word with the teams, which you used to see nearly every single week. The referees are simply choosing not to award penalties for holding down unless it is the most glaring example like a last ditch cover tackle and nobody else is back to form the defensive line.

He was awful.

His touch judges weren't much better though.

The worrying aspect is that since referees went 'full time', they standard of officiating has declined in my opinion.

it's like debating with a brick wall!! At no point did I say Fridays game was over refed!! Nor do I crave dull rugby, but I like other fans prefer the defensive aspect of the game more than the attack!! That's just my preference!! I like the contest at the ruck!! Please stay with me on this and I will try and give my views on the game!! it seems to me your biggest beef with the refing isthe holding down! I think our game needs to evolve in sl as it has in Australia!! The problem we have at international level is our backs are so used to sl defence where there are massive holes to run through that we don't have a clue how to unlock tight defenses!! Which is a problem at your own club!! You are the best attacking team around running at a tierd disjointed defence but look cluless against a tight well drilled defensive line!! The play the ball is slower now than in other seasons but this will make our game stronger especially at international level, teams will become more creative in attack!! Lets be honest people are saying this sl has Been the best ever not the worst !! I think the nrl at it's peek had gone too far and was too slow but the game on Friday was far from boaring!! Whilst holding down for fans is frustrating it's just a frustrating for me seeing an almost tag style rugby where teams are looking to drop to their knees and spring up for Lighting play the balls!! Saints are constantly looking for the fast play the ball as all teams are!! But saints are also looking to lay on, have hands in, pull the ball out and turn player on their backs! You can't be top of the league with the second best defense if you wernt!!

In this tread you all have a beef with the holding down which week in week out saints are the worst/best at(depending on your point of view) with Leeds and hudds!! You post like saints are the only team not doing the holding!!

Thailer refed the game the same for both teams!! He didn't hammer one team and let the other get away with it!! In very wet conditions, he refed a derby with without giving pen after pen and let the teams battle it out!! Which for me was great to watch!! I think thailer should get a pat on the back for this!! Instead saints fans hammer the ref in game you won!!

I think the real problem for some of you is that you want a pen when saints get held down but turn a blind eye when you are defending as you are the kings of hands in! Where as Leeds are kings of the ball strip and hudds are kings of the wrestle!

On Friday You wernt allowed your cake and didn't get to eat it!! Good on ya thailer!! It's refreshing to see a game with out 20 pens in it!

At the risk of getting into a nah nah nana syndrome with you, the fact that you are bored with the rules of rugby and how they are applied is neither here or there. They are the rules and if we are to disregard them the game becomes null and void. If the game depressess you so much then find another game to watch.

St Helens have built there game on fast plays of the ball, which means getting off the floor fast. Whilst referees allow people to mess around at the play of the ball, lie on etc etc they are failing to do their job, which is to apply the rules to a given situation. If you want NRL type rugby then watch NRL rugby, do not apply your fancies to the British game.

I'm not bored with the rules I'm board of fans moaning when they don't get it all their own way from the refs

I love my rugby league it doesn't depressess in the slightest!!



this is saints fans in a nut shell!!! Translation= the refs arnt refing the game to saints advantage!! Which I just what I've been saying!! Thanks for backing me up!! You need to get over it!!

I do and I love it!! The game is much quicker with 2 refs but there is still a great ruck contest !! We haven't got 6 good refs let alone the 12 that would be needed to run the same system !! Before the 2 refs The slow play the ball was tough to watch at times but what it did do was develop some of the most creative backs of all time!! Which ment there were/are amazing games the like of which are a lot less frequant to sl!!

as a saints and rugby fan i would rather see continuous fast paced rugby than stop start, even if at times it goes against saints favour. cliche it may be but decisions do iron out in the long run! if it means some fisticuffs along the way then so be it. Refs are empowered to make decisions, in the interests of keeping the game flowing if decisions go against you then just get on with it. The players do, repect to them! when we get people moaning about forward pass this and knock on that on forums such as this then omg, move on.

agree with a lot of stuff you said m8, but i am not having the point on looking clueless against a tight well drilled defense. It is a bizzare statement. How many tight and well drilled defenses have we come up agianst in the past 4 seasons. meaning how many times have we failed to score a few tries. As a percentage this is low!

Anyway, I am sure it is in every coaches game plan to be tight and well drilled in defense so I suppose you could say they set out to be just that. In the majority of games we have no problems breaking down that well drilled defense do we?

clueless is maybe a bit strong!! But if you arnt getting a quick play the ball you have no real plan b !!

That's what we're working on this season, silly. It's probably one reason why our form hasn't been great. We've been adjusting to the new regime, play the ball wise.

people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Owned.

I said the game as a whole is over refed not the saints Wigan game!! As for me been owed I think not!!

There is a fair way to contest at the ruck, and there is unfair interference. Holding the player down too long, leaving the arm in, and a player dropping in late, isn't improving the game - it is slowing the game down without using any skill. It is dumbing down the defensive game.

If you like the defensive aspect of the game, surely you would want the defending team to earn winning the ruck, and to earn slowing the other team down. Otherwise the defending team control of the ruck is pretty much dictated by the referee.

I want quick, fast flowing rugby with fair play around the ruck. It doesn't need to be lightening, but it needs to be fair and consistently refereed.

This is my opinion as a Rugby fan, not just a Saints fan. I don't know why you have to keep muddying the waters with accusations of wanting the rules to suit St Helens. It is not the case for most fans.