Fair comment. Throw Jonny in there and IMO it starts to become clear why Smith would choose a team like Salford where he should be confident of making the first 13, rather than stay with Saints and face a huge struggle to make the 17 on a regular basis.

Well, it appears a lot of our fans value fuel consumption more than top speed



No club in their right mind would take Smith over Eastmond. We may be proved wrong in a few years if we're still struggling to get him on the pitch, but his immense talent is well worth the gamble.

The kicking game's been mentioned, but I think people are forgetting Kyle has a decent and varied boot on him.

Why then call Matty Smith back? when he has signed for another club? time will tell, but long term Eastmond, with St Helens I do not share you confidence!

I think Smith's main quality by far is his short kicking game. It was his control of Warrington by forcing repeat sets consistently that helped the forwards get on top, it is something we have been lacking lately. If Eastmond's hip is even half bad he isn't going to be able to kick comfortably, hence why I would have Smith in there.

Why do you think

We've got Eastmond, Pryce, Lomax and Wheeler all injured.
Matty Smith is still a St Helens player and therefore available to us - why wouldn't we call him back!?

The only argument that i consider to have any legs is whether we should have brought Matty back and let Scott Moore go instead. I think Smith could have done a good solid job at hooker for us (he did for crusaders), whereas Scotty seems very hot and cold. However, Moore was one of the form hookers at the end of his stint with Hudds and made the dream team and england squad, so assuming he can recapture that form, we'll be vindicated.

Nobody is denying Kyle's 'immense talent'. I'm not even sure people are talking in either/or terms? I know I'm not. What Saints need is both because each brings something of equal value to the halfback partnership which would make it an incredibly effective whole. As it is, without Smith, we don't have the tactical kicking game and nor do we have the organisation. The contrast between Friday night's game and every other game of the season was obvious to anyone with eyes. We just lack those to elements in our game; elements Smith would provide us with. He also brings his individual passion for Saints, which never goes amiss!

And he's not bad looking either. Always a plus!

I think we should though. They're both scrum halfs and play their best rugby at 1st receiver. Both are good enough to command a starting spot at a superleague team, therefore I don't think it would be possible to keep them both at the club and keep them happy, unless we were to get one to swap position.

I don't really like the idea of moving Kyle (to 6 for example). I think he's a very natural 1st receiver, but the pace he possesses tends to get others imaginations placing him all over the pitch. If Kyle (or Lomax) came back tomorrow, I do agree that one of those playing along side Smith would go alright even in the big games coming up.

As I've mentioned, imo we wouldn't have gone far wrong if we'd have kept hold of Matty to do Moore's job.

These games won't do smith's career any harm. If we have a good run, his performances will stick in coaches mind and assuming he does a solid job at Salford for the next 2 seasons, he'll have some interest when it comes to contract renewal.

If they both specifically want the no.7 jersey then I suppose that is a problem but if one was happy with 6 and one 7, or Smith at 9, then they would have complemented each other well IMO. Would cause absolute chaos with their kicks and Kyle's darts and such like. Each one would probably show up stronger in different conditions too. Quite a prospect in rugby league terms given their respective talents.


Agreed.

I know Leon might have appeared invisible in a Grand Final or two, but don't forget the lad entirely.

I'm not. I've had nothing but good things to say about Leon all season. He has been our organiser and has played some wonderful rugby. I think he has been outstanding for us all season. I was just reflecting, albeit hypothetically and retrospectively since Smith is shortly to be a Salford player.

I've only just had the chance to come on here and add my view to this thread. I haven't read the whole thread either so if it's already been said, apologies.

Matty Smith was sensational against Warringtion, his best display in a Saints shirt by a mile. His kicking game was immaculate and he changed the game with the the kick for the opening try and the 40/20. He deserved the MOM award in a superb team effort. IMO, he must stay in the side at 7 for the remainder of the year and should Kyle or Lomax return, the other slots in at 6. I have my doubts whether we'll see either again to be honest and there's no need to keep Smith out of the team purely on that basis alone.

Smith is a good solid scrum half. That’s his position. Thoughts/views/opinions of putting him at 9 in any team regardless of talent currently in the 7 slot are just nonsensical.

Smith for me is a creative player who links the ball between his forwards and his backs very well. He has good vision to put 11, 12 and 13 or his three quarters to work. Can make breaks, and does occasionally to keep the opposition guessing. Technically he has quick hands, a good kicking game - tactical kicks and kicks for territory. Coupled with his decision making skills, which will only get better, it make him a potent weapon because it forces the opposition to focus on several areas of defence, both physically and mentally.
You don’t need superstars in every position to produce a team like we had in 2006 just players with the right skills, in the right positions that compliment each other.

Based on my opinion above. To me its clear that the argument that anyone would have Eastmond in there team over Smith is also as ridiculous as playing Smith at 9

If I had more time I'd imagine my response to this thread would have been this. Pretty much word for word!

Spot on.

And therein lies the problem. It wasn't "typical Matty Smith" that we saw against Wire as seems to be suggested in some parts, that level of performance shocked most Saints fans who had watched him during his time here, and the Salford fans who have seen a lot more of him in recent months. If we're being honest, I'm not sure many of us thought he could raise his game to that level of performance.

I agree he's worth the 7 in the next game, though.



If Eastmond AND Lomax return (although highly unlikely), Potter has quite the selection predicament.

When he was here last, though, he was mainly potential, wasn't he? He only managed a few first team showings because Longy was still very much around. But quite a few Saints fans saw his potential at that time. He's had two years away since then, developing his game (the point of going out on loan, I thought). It appears to me that some Saints fans didn't take that bit into consideration but were still thinking of him in terms of the potential no.7, rather than the no.7 he is now and could become.

I'm not so sure, to be honest.

There weren't many of us shedding a tear at his departure (let's be honest, the 'loan out' was always likely to end up a permanent move away somewhere) and most people - myself included - commented that he'd never be likely to reach "Saints" standard.

Personally I'm still not sure that, consistently, he can. Otherwise there'd be clubs queuing up to rescue him from mid to lower table mediocrity. Wouldn't there?

I think you (and others on here!) need to separate the people who post on here from the other 10,000 fans who never come on here! I remember two moments where Smith was concerned. One was on the coach travelling to the 2007 Grand Final. I was in a discussion with about a dozen die-hard Saints fans. All of us, without exception, thought Smith should be in the Grand Final and not Longy. We all thought he deserved the opportunity because he'd impressed us all as a young rookie who had coped with the pressure of the playoffs, kicked well, etc. That same group of fans, including me, all bemoaned the fact that Anderson played Longy and not Smith on the night.

The second memory I have is the Hull FC game early in the 2008 season when he kicked a penalty goal from the touchline to win us the match. He was as cool as anything and he had once again played well for us. His goal kicking was very impressive, especially given that we were growing used to Longy's inconsistent boot by then. The gang I stand with at the match (a different group from the one on the coach!) were all for him taking over from Longy at some point as we were all impressed by him.

I didn't see him again after that. He broke his arm shortly after and then Kyle seemed to emerge from nowhere.

So my own experience of Saints fans and their opinions of Matty is different from yours and that is possibly one reason why I was delighted when Matty was brought back for the last game and perhaps you were a little more cautious.


Why not? The only way we find out how consistent a player is, is by playing him consistently! I think in some ways Smith has possibly dug his own grave should he be picked for the semi. He performed so well last weekend and no player can possibly give a man of the match performance every weekend. But his critics, or skeptics if you like, will be looking for that and will possibly write him off if he doesn't produce to the same high standard. He certainly looked like a Saints player last weekend, didn't he? However, I personally have every confidence that he can consistently play well at 7. Not always MoM because he's a human being, not a robot, but certainly consistently well enough for Saints to feel a real benefit from him being in the team.


How many top level clubs have picked players from bottom level clubs recently? Warrington with Myler springs to mind. We have just picked out Shenton (although Cas are probably more a mid table team these days). But I can't think of anyone else, can you? I don't have the best memory though so I could be wrong. However, it seems to me that the traffic does tend to travel more in the other direction.

Just because a team is poor doesn't mean every player is poor. Smith impressed many Saints fans when Salford played against us at the Willows. Presumably he was motivated to play because he has made it abundantly clear he wants to be a Saints player. He's a Saints lad. Have you heard the Podcast? I thought it was quite endearing! But anyway. He will be well motivated if he gets into the semi and if he performs anything like he did last weekend at the semi then he will have put himself well and truly in the shop window, something he has hardly had a chance to do at Salford with the forwards and backline they have, has he?

I'm not a Smith critic, I actually quite like him. He's a good, solid scrum half and that's exactly the view I held of him when he was at Saints, and the times I've seen him since with Salford and Crusaders. A reliable journeyman, if you will.

And for the record, I wasn't at all cautious about calling him back - I was delighted to have a recognised half back at half back, as opposed to the "make do and mend" approach of having two forwards there.

He was saintsational against Wire but he hasn't performed to this standard with Salford or Crusaders, or even Widnes, with any kind of regularity and the players you mention being plucked from lower teams were plucked because they stood out in those teams. Smith hasn't really, apart from the odd game.

I hope he wins us the Grand Final with a Harry Sunderland winning performance, and proves me entirely wrong. I'd be delighted to admit that I was.

How do you know? Have you watched him play in all his matches at those clubs? I'm curious because you state it with such certainty.


One player: Myler (because I classed Cas as a mid table team). And exactly how well has he played at Warrington?


Again, I wouldn't know as I haven't watched him. One thing I do know though is that Widnes, Crusaders and Salford don't have the forwards that we do and forwards are important to how well a halfback can play.

But maybe we will get the chance to find out if he can back up his performances in the semi. I doubt Potter will play him if both Eastmond and Lomax are 'fit' (because I don't actually believe either of them will actually [ibe[/i fit!). But if he does get the chance I hope he shows us what he can do a second time so that people stop calling him a journeyman! I think the only journey he has wanted to take is the one on to Knowsley Road pitch wearing the red vee.

I've seen a fair few of them, and have mates who are Widnes season ticket holders (I know, you CAN pick your friends...) and I read the Salford and Crusaders forums. Not staking a claim to having seen every game, but if he was THAT good, I'm fairly sure I'd know.



I've not been too impressed with Myler, personally. But then, I wasn't that impressed with him at Salford. Decent support player sums him up, IMO.

I accept the forwards argument, but even in games that they have won where the forwards have laid the platform, Smith hasn't had the plaudits of, say, Robinson (while at Salford), Ratchford, Sammut, Brough (at Wakey), Orr (Cas) etc. Good players stand out, despite the lack of quality around them.



I wholeheartedly agree. I would love him to show us that he can play a major part in us winning the title. I will be the first on here to congratulate him.

Well, maybe not the first - there will be a LOT of beer to be drunk first.

I don't remember any plaudits for Robinson; it's gone quiet over Ratchford since Myler left; Sammut is years older than Smith and has played NRL so really that comparison is unfair; Brough has pretty much disappeared at Hudds and was very moody at Wakey - if he played well, they all did; if he had a shocker (and he had those) then they all did; Orr - I didn't know he attracted plaudits? But anyway. We will see.

To be honest, I think ole Smithy has probably dug himself a bit of a hole. He now has to produce at least the same level of performance to convince people he's Good Enough. If he does get the chance to play next weekend, I hope he can rise to the pressure!

ETA: Bradford have apparently just signed Shad Royston from Halifax so I suppose that's another example of signing up!

Hes been struggling with injuries and has been played out of position for most of the season, he played in FB for our last game against Wakey though and he was class. Just to mention it while I'm on your board, you heard anything of Jon Wilkin to Salford? Was posted on the Wire board as a rumor that one of the Wire fans head I think, probably just a rumor though!

SaintFan, I'm a Salford fan and go to nearly every match home and away so I cannot really comment on Danny Brough's situation. With regards to Luke Robinson, Richie Myler and Stefan Ratchford I can.

Luke Robinson had one really good season with us and his second season was the season we were last relegated. When he was at his best he had Andrew Duneman at six. Andrew was a very good stand off both defensively and offensively and he brought Luke on in leaps and bounds. When Duneman left Luke tried to do it all himself and had no foil to create any meaningful gaps. This resulted in Luke running sideways all the time which also happened quite a lot at Huddersfield when he played at seven. Overall a good number seven when playing with a creative six.

Richie Myler I think will be a world class player much in the mould of Shaun Edwards, although I don't like comparing players of different era's. He is the best young player I've seen at Salford for many a year although in the recent past we don't get many. He was outstanding for us last year until all the rumours started regarding Warrington. He's a fantastic support player but he's also a gooid short kicker as well. I said when he moved that it was too soon for him to move. Young players in the main are more inconsistant and need games to make their mistakes and learn. Warrington won't give him the games if he's not performing week in and week out. Richie needs a playmaker and organiser playing alongside him and he'll be a fantastic player. Him and a more experienced Sam Tomkins in years to come would be a great combination.

Stefan Ratchford is one of my favourite players he is good at so many areas of his game. He's more of an all rounder than Robinson and Myler. I think he's more of a standoff than seven but he played his best rugby when playing alongside Richie Myler. They swapped first and second receiver which gave then more options, which in turn gave more space for Myler to create the gaps. I think Stefan could also play bat fullback as he's quite a tall lad and appears to read the game well. Unfortunately for him, but good for Salford as a Team we've got Daniel Holdsworth who's an outstanding No 6. This means Stefans favourite position is taken unless Holdsworth moves to 13.

Finally and by no means least is Matty Smith. I wasn't initailly happy when Matty wes played at 7 alongside Holdsworth and Stefan was shunted out onto the Wing (or Centre). He's been improving as he's played more games and gelled as a partnership with Holdsworth. He's been inconsistant but you'd expect that from a player that hasn't played many Super League games. His best for Salford was the Saints game at home where he was outstanding. I really enjoyed watching him playing for Saints last week where his short kicking game was superb and his playmaking was very good (considering he hasn't played in the Saints Team for two years). It shows what he is capable of when the forward pack make the yards, not something he's seen much of this year.

Hope the team do well and get to Old Trafford with Matty playing his part. I'll be there fo the great day out.

PS I've enjoyed reading this Matty Smith thread