The pre season training seemed to be built on muscle building with stamina from the vids.

However, fat lot of good that did us when we had no shape or speed.
I'm with the sad one on this tonight - KC is out of his depth.

I'd play Paul Atcheson over him ... Even now

Totally baffling and blinkered, KC wants to make Turner a no 6 at all costs at the expense of team balance and moral. I want Burns back in the side, he might not play well at times but at least he will show some fight in the back line, Turner back at centre he might make some defensive errors but at least we will have an attack out wide.

At the risk of sounding like a scratched record nothing's changed from last season in my mind and it was as clear as daylight to me then. KC is, was and always will be out of his depth as a head coach - most people now seem to be accepting it. I said it when he was appointed, and I'm not being a smart ***, but it will end in tears. The excuse makers will no doubt do just that for various aspects of last night's 'performance' but the truth is staring you in the face.

In the week he said 'we've prepared well and are ready but need to treat Salford with respect'. After the game he said' I sensed a little bit of complacency before the game'.

Which is it Keiron?

Great player. No coach.

Bang on

Be patient with Jack he didn't play a lot of rugby last year. I dare say it though performances like last night are why Widnes fans weren't too bothered about him being released. It was a shame as he is a local lad, but he's not moving Hanbury away from full back.

I will say - that is probably the worst I've seen him ever play.

That's the worst I've seen most of that team play!!!!!!

Any other club would be blooding Bailey at FB; his natural position. KC decided to play him out of position and he nearly ruined the lad.

He played him in a much easier position to start with. If a debut on the wing can nearly ruins them, I hope Greg Inglis, Billy Slater, Brett Morris, Darius Boyd, Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, Jack Wighton, James Tedesco (pretty much a list of every good NRL fullback at the minute) know about this. It's a much easier position to play, you don't have to ball-play or organise the defensive line, just make your tackles, catch your kicks and carry the ball. Cunningham can be criticised for many things but this isn't one of them. A good fullback should be able to play on the wing.

Just to add to that, Bailey played half a game against Dewsbury in preseason and looked pretty shaky under the high ball.

What happened to that young FB? Was it Nathan Ashe?

He didn't have enough injuries on his CV so they got rid, Think he has played for London Scholars since leaving.

Has he? He gave up pro RL after leaving Saints didn't he? I'm sure I saw a conversation with Lance Hohaia on twitter where he said he'd gone to London to live with his brother. I googled him and the only thing I could find was a team sheet from London Skolars Reserves against Wests Warrirors and he was a sub for Wests Warriors. I think they are based in Acton, playing in the London Mens Premier League.

He plays for Wests Warriirs, which are a mostly antipodean team in the London comp. I've refer him a few times, and he's an argumentative bugger too. The most skilful player in the park by some distance, though.

Any news on a Lomax return, KC was quoted as ready in 4 to 6 weeks, but that was 9 weeks ago. Is the 4 to 6 weeks in the year 2016 or 2017.

Apparently he has broken his foot now, expected back late June?

I wouldn't hold your breath though.

Quote ="Judder Man"Any news on a Lomax return, KC was quoted as ready in 4 to 6 weeks, but that was 9 weeks ago. Is the 4 to 6 weeks in the year 2016 or 2017.'" www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/sai ... st_Wolves/? Quote And Cunningham says he is still unable to put a timeline on long-term absentee Jonny Lomax’s return. “We were hoping he’d be fit for the end of March but things took a turn for not the best. “We’ll just play it week by week, there’s other issues with Jonny that isn’t regarding his knee. "I’d love the kid to be running around in a Saints shirt, he’d help me out and my team but we can’t force the issue, we’ve got to be patient with him. I’m desperate for him to be back.” '" So it takes a turn for the mysterious? Other issues = foot? Or are there other things going on?

Quote ="Judder Man"Any news on a Lomax return, KC was quoted as ready in 4 to 6 weeks, but that was 9 weeks ago. Is the 4 to 6 weeks in the year 2016 or 2017.'" www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/sai ... st_Wolves/? Quote And Cunningham says he is still unable to put a timeline on long-term absentee Jonny Lomax’s return. “We were hoping he’d be fit for the end of March but things took a turn for not the best. “We’ll just play it week by week, there’s other issues with Jonny that isn’t regarding his knee. "I’d love the kid to be running around in a Saints shirt, he’d help me out and my team but we can’t force the issue, we’ve got to be patient with him. I’m desperate for him to be back.” '" So it takes a turn for the mysterious? Other issues = foot? Or are there other things going on?

We need to cut our losses. Lomax's unfortunate condition means we have effectively been trying to compete on a significantly lower salary cap than other clubs for more than two years now.

A player who can never play is not actually a player.

This is not a criticism of Lomax in any way. He's been very unlucky. But no club can sustain a very highly paid non-playing player.

I'd cut him some slack. He's got a lot to contend with at this moment in time and not necessarily all rugby related.

That may be true. But however personally blameless he is, if I wasn't able to perform my job for 2 years, I'd not be getting paid any more.

Can someone PM the details here? What's this about?

It's not the kind of stuff that should ever be on a forum, not for public domain. There is more to life than rugby and he'll be back when he is back.

I think that's class. I have no idea what's going on in the lads life but I think it's a credit to this forum that that remains so. On a separate note I can see where Roy's coming from however it's different with sports. We can hand our notice in and leave a place of employment...players 'belong' to a club.

Good man, well said