His introduction and Moon's departure were two different times wasn't they? or have I misread what you put?

But Elliot Minchella was thrown in the fray and played a full stint. I would have done the same with Mulhern and used him properly.

Yeah I think Moon went off slightly earlier than Mulhern's introduction and fairly certain it read at the bottom of the screen Delaney came on for Moon.

Mulhern came on for last 5, Moon had well left the field by then.

IIRC (due to alcohol consumption)

Moon had to go off in the closing stages and Mulhern came on in the closing stages

To replace Bailey I presume?

I think Minchella has been slightly ahead of Mulhern in the taxi rank and perhaps was more mentally prepared.

Mulhern came on for Bails didn't he?

Well Minchella was named in the original
19 so was possibly always planned to play. Mulhern only came in when Sinfield was withdrawn late on, so whilst frustrating to not see a sub get a bit longer it wasn't quite as ill conceived and poorly thought out as the Achurch non selection at Hudds earlier in the year.

Did Mulhern play for under 19's before hand? Is that why less game time?

i remember in 2011 we won only 4 of our first 10 games, we saw how all these players were terrible that we had no plan, no structure, our players just werent good enough, our experienced players were all spent and our younger players werent as good as we thought they were.

There are times every season where we struggle. Where injuries and poor form mean we dont perform to our potential. Where injuries and fitness mean we are a step slower and a bit weaker and that means we struggle. Once you start to struggle you play the game differently. You have push it a little more, take a few more risks, confidence fades, timing breaks down, Thats where we are now. we look worse than we are because we can't play our game. We dont impose ourselves on the game so we dont control it. We dont make it be played how we want it to be.

However our players have undoubted quality, they have proven it time and time again and have proven this year that they can still do it. We have shown and continue to show we can beat anyone. We will rise again and when we do we are still easily capable of winning everything this year. If we are to suffer the stutter every team suffers, now is ok to do it.

despite our poor form, and stinking the place up for 6 weeks, we are 2nd in the league by a point, and in the cup semi-final. We win the next 13 games on the trot and we win the treble.

The fact that including going all the way in the CC and playoffs, theres only potentially 13 games left should really highlight to people how little game time left there is to really build up the form required.

Ever since leeds beat castleford and then played wigan at Magic their form in all departments has gone west.

This isn't 2011 and just because leeds have overturned sticky situations in the past doesn't mean it will happen again. It may sound ridiculous but to my mind leeds are already likely to lose the CC semi because of the relative form of warrington in comparison to leeds. They are on fire, and they have a great CC record recently. Leeds are still in contention for the hub cap (does anyone really care about that?). But there is only 1 point seperating warrington and leeds in the table. So people dining out on the fact leeds are still second should be wary of how precarious leeds position in the table really is. Warrington are now well in contention to finish top, are in the CC semi, and are really chuntering along now on good form. Not a bad situation.

1 or 2 more duff results (almost likely considering recent form) could see leeds slip down to 5th. 5th and out of the CC would put a massively different perspective on things.

I'm not saying that will happen. The point is, the margins for the season now are f*cking fine and leeds need to start playing better and churning out wins NOW, otherwise the season is in danger of completley petering out, which, given the age of some of the main players, would that even be all that suprising?

We can't look back at the fact Leeds have come good in recent seasons but Warrington's recent cup successes can be used to say they're favourites?

Yes they're on a good run and we're a bit poor ATM but...

2013 CC Semi Warrington vs Hull

Warrington went in having won 13 of their last 14 games in all competitions.
Hull had lost all their last 5 SL games.

Hull won btw.

You are right though about there being so little games left to build up form heading towards the Cup and Playoffs.....

Wigan 2013 from Round 19 onwards (where we are now in this season) P9 W2 L7........How did they do in the end?

Games arent won at any other time other than the 80minutes in which they are played. However Wire are playing now is irrelevant to how the match will go.

People only look at a smaller sample size when it suits their argument. The fact is, that over this season our form is better than Warringtons.

Warrington are favourite because of their form currently heading into the CC semi. I threw in their recent CC record as filler.

The rest of your post is comparing different situations with different teams in different seasons. This is leeds in 2014, not hull in 2013 or wigan in 2013.

But FWIW.....

Hull went on to play awfully and lose in the final. They didn't win the trophy.

Wigan were cruising in top spot. Then they chilled out and rested their stars to focus on the games where trophies were handed out. That is not leeds situation.

It's ok to admit your original post was found to be flawed and contradictory but back peddle instead if you must.

While it's hard to judge due to the little game time he has been given at first team level I liked the look of mulhern, and physically he looked a lot more ready for first team rugby than singleton and the much heralded baldwinson and Bradford. Both to me look a little light for prop at the moment (I know they are young and will develop) hopefully he will get a few more games this year

How long has Singleton been in and around the first team squad now?

He's got to add something to his game, whether it's a pass at the line or better footwork going into contact, because at the moment he's so predictable and easy to line up for defenders. Leads to him either being gang tackled or sat on his backside, giving slow play the balls.

Reminds me of both jamie field and Luke ambler, good youngster but cannot step up to laying against men, just look how Walters has made the step up compaired to the highly rated mincella

walters is the tits, he's just suddenly appeared and produced the goods without much fuss.

Glad we signed him up.

i think singleton needs a bit of bulking up. i'm happy to wait. props don't mature until 28/29. he's time yet

If props don't get good till then, how come so many of them actually go backwards by then?

Agree not writing him off but if I am honest he looks a bit too plump and needs some more good bulk. Sure he will make it, I like how he runs the ball up. Also think baldwinson needs to add a bit more bulk but he is younger. Mulhern just looks more physically ready

Because - and I think we might both have the same high profile example in mind (Fielden?) - they've been exposed to too much rugby too early and got physically and mentally worn down by it.

Peacock's the exception to a lot of rules, but I'm not sure he would still be the force he is now if he'd been playing top grade every week since he was 18.

Ah, but there is a difference between over exposed (burnt out) and getting better or worse in some cases.

Bailey could be another example. He was a far superior player in 2004-2005 than he has been in any of his last few years. I don't think that one was down to burn out at an early age though.

Fielden you are correct on, but everyone said in his early years how he was on for too many minutes. By contrast Sam Burgess and James Graham are awesome players, and will be no better at 29 than they were at 23, but still have plenty years in them.

The younger Burgess boys would all attest to the fact that the old "props peak at 30" mantra is probably no longer correct. Whilst they do need size, the best props also have some agility and speed. Not something that improves with age.