My point is it is symptomatic.....people like that now feel emboldened: genie out of the bottle.

And yes...I think we should have probably put an upper age of 50 on it? It is not fair that the old can impose any hugely important long term irreversible decision on the young.

There should have been an IQ test too

My point and (more importantly) my son's and his friends' point too. Utterly unfair that they should pay any future price. Their bloody pensions should be first in line for any price that needs to be paid.

Disgraceful



This I would undoubtedly agree with. If someone had made this comment earlier, I truly would not have been able to refute it. Instead, the Remainers (not all) shot themselves in the foot & effectively claimed you had to be a racist to vote Brexit. Now, I will be honest & tell you that I was quite unashamedly Brexit from the start, but I can understand how this aggressive & insulting approach grated with people (like Printer).



All I can tell you, your son, & his friends is that after the emotion has dissipated just relax & get on with your lives. I have great confidence in this country's ability to remain (poor choice of word!) at the forefront of world affairs. The world is an exponentially smaller place than when I was growing up in the 70's. We do not need an unelected bureaucracy to lead us by the hand. Our business leaders are perfectly capable of successfully selling their goods & services to places throughout the world.



That's very kind of you, but I have to argue on behalf of the likes of Juan, Printer, Tad (there are probably others) in that I think they have all put forward salient points without resorting to petty name calling or point-scoring (I must admit I slipped into a bit of this with craigizzard this morning, much to my shame!)



Agreed



Come on now nantwich, that's just wallowing. Nobody's died here. Things will continue pretty much as they did before. I have to say I really can't understand your son & his girlfriend's fixation with the EU. What do they think is going to happen? War? Gates closed to mainland Europe? Extortionate fares all of a sudden precluding foreign travel? All trade with European countries to cease?

Really, have a few beers/wine/whiskeys (delete as appropriate), other than a couple of years of wrangling over trade deals, fishing rights etc nothing will change much.

We need young people to come into the country, pay taxes - paying for pensions and healthcare. The population is ageing and birth rates are crap. Germany has a similiar issue with birth rates, one of the reasons merkel was desperate to take loads of migrants. We've just alienated the rest of europe. Little england.

Ok, but I was too young to vote in 1973. I think it is utterly unfair that I was liable for any shortfall in pensions of the old buggers who voted to join the EEC in the first place.

But the remain vote pointed out that leaving wouldn't stop immigration.

I worked bloody hard to buy my house and save for my pension. nobody gave me anything.a lot of the younger generation thinks the world owes them a living. some of these comments are pathetic.. stop whinging.its called democracy. you don't like not getting your own way. tough

After 40+ years in the common market/E.U., wouldnt it make sense to reflect after say 5 to 10 years to measure whether has been beneficial to our nation (the U.K.) rather than attempting instant analysis of the result and the inevitable short term changes?

Agreed. And i am still under 40, making my own decent way in life off my own bat.

Some of the stuff spouted on here is frankly pathetic and spiteful imo from those on the remain camp and the banding of folk, 17.5 million of us infact,all as either a racist or numpty is out of order.

I am not delirious but I do have a lot of confidence in what I consider to be a very special country - the fact you don't is a shame.

You claim those that have opposing views to yours aren't able to talk like normal humans - which bit of what I have posted supports your views.

Your posts suggests you are hard left - I might be wrong be that is the impression I get. The left always think we are incapable of running our lives without them telling us how to - I also think that is a shame

And you think you have achieved that regardless of the country been part of the EU? I dont know what industry you are in, but I would bet it is benefitting in some way from that membership, which results in your decent way of life.

We buy a lot of product from Overseas, and in US dollar. That has taken a hit and resulted in a big increase in our costs, as a result of the referendum. I therefore had to make the decision today to stop all overtime for the next few weeks for our production. We can not afford to add premium wage to a cost already higher. This went down like a bag of sick with our workforce, but I explained currencies and the pound was always going to be effected by this out decision. They all said they thought that was just lies, and didn't think they would be effected. For gods sake, what people make decisions like this on, I do not know.

Surely if the value of dollar is so critical in your business you hedge against adverse movements?

The £ to dollar has been falling since September last year when it was 1.55 in April it was 1.40, yesterday 1.36 so the impact of the EU exit has impacted the $ rate less than other factors - mainly the drop in oil prices.

Given the fall of the £ to use the EU exit seems opportunistic given the movement in the £/$ over the last 6-9 months

Of course we hedge on it, we'll on a lot of occassions. But that is done at point of sale. Our materials take a time to arrive, then the manufacturing takes place. The drop as result of the EU exit is unprecedented. That can be absorbed, but only as a result of not adding to it with premium wage, which would normally be absorbed. Businesses can not be expected to cover that. You can not have your democratic vote on one hand, and then expect to only accept the good times on the other.

I do despair this morning with the lesser off of society posting all over social media, how we just have to roll our sleeves up and get this country moving again, whilst at the same time saying we just need a government with balls, and bosses to think about English workers now. What they mean is, you set the way and tell me what we should do, and pay me more for it. No rolling sleeves up, but just believe it will be better for them. Cloud cuckoo land jumps to mind, but good luck to them all. I am fortunate enough to be able to make the decisions to change strategy with this event, but others rely on me to do that. I didn't make this decision, but it seems I am expected to help others who did to get what they hoped for. Of course I have to do that, as ultimately it is only for my benefit also.

The fall in the dollar isn't unprecedented it is close to where it was in April so I am confused as to scare mongering.

I don't know your business but in our business O/T is needed to flex to cover demand so if that is the same in your business what do you do to the demand - I assume you have orders in the pipeline that need fulfilling?

I agree some don't live in the real world - but to use foreign labour to keep wages low is wrong and immoral.

As directors we are paid to make decisions and set the agenda that is our job - it is down to us to create the best culture and financial outcomes for our people.

It puzzles me and depresses me when people say this is the best country in the world or a special country. Based on what? Our sense of humour, our music, our ability to form an orderly queue? We are no better or worse than most westernised countries. It just smacks of an attitude of superiority over forriners which was the basis of most people who voted leave.

You use the term hard left as if it is a crime. It is not socialism that has focked up the world's economy. We are incapable of running our lives? Do you mean us as individuals or a UK government divorced from the EU? We have been happy to elect & re-elect an Eton Oxbridge elite far further from most people in the north than Europe ever has been. True democracy would give power locally, something the lie will not allow. Most of the big decisions made in this country that actually affect our daily lives have nothing or little to o with Europe. It's just another hard right cliché constantly regurgitated by the hard right press and soaked up by an ignorant population of a special country.

We are now waking up to a situation where there will be no milk and honey The promised nirvana will not appear, the NHS will not get its extra £360m a week, in fact it will end up getting less. The blame will be placed on Europe, on immigrants & on the working class by the Leave leaders who misled us. The Tory party will lurch further to the right, I will unthinkably pine for the days of David Cameron, Labour will lose the next election if Corbyn (a thoroughly decent man, but no leader) is still in charge & will implode further. All in all, we are screwed.

Or despite it?

Your evidence for this? ... Thought not.



Yet another who loses an argument (the referendum), can't believe that he could possibly be wrong, so has to find some "logical" reason for what happened - xenophobia, the ignorant masses, lying by the Leave leaders (that's a good one by the way!)

Out of interest, who would you have Corbyn replaced by who is more electable and can win the next election?

Think carefully before you answer that question.

Remember, it wasn't Corbyn who lost in 2010.

Nor was it Corbyn who lost the last election along with almost the whole of Scotland to the SNP.

And it isn't Corbyn who lost a fair chunk of Labour's heartland to UKIP or anyone else either.

I think Tigertot may envisage himself as [u[url=http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/divided-britain-how-referendum-exposed-britains-culture-warHampstead (Herbivore) rather than Hull[/url[/u.

Right - lets get one thing straight.

Anyone who voted Remain in the referendum is not 'wrong'. it simply means they have a different opinion to a smaller majority.

How do we know that leaving the EU is the right thing to do at this moment in time? We don't in the same way we don't know if staying in the EU would have been the right thing to do.

At this point in time we don't know if the decision the great British public have made is the right one or the wrong one - time will tell us that but you can't say that anyone who voted Remain is wrong as we just don't know.

I don't know if you are referring to my post with this. But if you are, my precise quote was:
"Yet another who loses an argument (the referendum), can't believe that he could possibly be wrong"

Remainers DID lose the argument with regard to the referendum as 51.9% of the electorate voted otherwise.

"can't believe that he could possibly be wrong" is not stating that he, or his argument, is wrong. I simply pointed out that he (as typical of a few Remainers) will not even entertain the possibility that the Leavers may be right. Rather that someone misled them, they were xenophobes, racists, thick, Little Englanders etc etc

It is precisely this sort of arrogant, extremist attitude that so many of the normal public voted against on Thursday.

I've already stated my evidence. Did you bother reading? Thought not.

Democracy isn't winning or losing it is the right to an opinion & the right to vote in accordance with your opinions.

The Leave leaders are already retracting their promises.

As a member & active in another political party it isn't up to me to make that call. He certainly holds views most similar to mine out of all the candidates I can think of. But that doesn't necessarily make him electable. IMO he has been far too quiet since elected in taking on the Tories & far, far too quiet during the EU debate. He might be trying a new, more honourable form of politics but unfortunately that goes pretty much unnoticed. If we assume the current political system continues then Labour look like the only opposition so someone who looks good & says the right things is sadly necessary.

What if: Cameron only went to the leave side to ensure the message was one of weakness and fear of change so that the Leave side had a clearer run, in the full knowledge of the Tory party that this would trigger another indyref in Scotland and therefore ensure that there would be Tory rule over England and Wales until Doomsday? Personally I don't believe it's true, but I do believe it's possible...