I know we are desperate, but Ratchford is not going to give us anything significantly better than what we've already got. Like someone said, Wire rate him so highly they brought in Gidley.

Was Gidley brought in above him? Was he hell, that is a silly thought. Gidley was brought in for the leadership and experience they were missing across the squad. Ratchford plays starting thirteen no matter what position it is. Whether he is a jack of all trades or not, is only to his teams benefit, as he plays no matter what, purely because of the quality he brings. That flexibility allows his coach to rotate and rest key players elsewhere.

To answer your question he is significantly better than what we currently have.

Hes a good player Ratchford but this isnt gonna happen. Wire would never let him go.

If I were playing for one of the better coaches in SL would I want to come and play for one of the worst.

Quite but some on here are blinkered and think Smith can only coach a team of expensive imports!!

Think we can rule HKR out of the running now.

Where did they finish in the league last year with their all English HB's before they brought in Gidley and Sandow?

Higher than Leeds/McDermott finished this year without Sinfield

True, but McDermott did what Smith couldn't and led Sinfield and co to a treble whilst Smith f**ked up a treble in 2005 with them.

Agreed but Smith took a team that hadn't won the league for 32 years and got them there. McDermott inherited a great side with a winning mentality and look what has happened as soon as his key half back retires?

2005 was a year that Smith learned a lot about man management and the need to re-assess his approach, these days he seems far less arrogant and more compassionate than he did in his days at Leeds.

And despite some claims that 2017 will be exactly the same as this year we might well see McDermott learn from this. Also Smith then took us backwards in 2006 which was arguably our poorest season in the Sinfield-era, and he didn't cope too well when Briers retired.

I agree re. 2006 - I think this was a reaction to what went on in 2005 it continued into 2007 until it was announced his was leaving.

Warrington built a team around Briers and didn't have much else - in that scenario any coach would struggle. McDermott has hardly flourished post Sinfield and Leeds had a better squad that Warrington did when Briers was playing

People are writing off 2017 because of the quality of the squad as much as the quality of the coach

[code[/code

And this season has proved really that for over a decade our team was built round Sinfield, perhaps more than most of us even realised.

Look, i do think we need a regime change but there is still a chance Mac will turn it around next year and get us challenging again. whatever, he will be here anyway so we have to get behind him and hope that will be the case.

The present squad of players are not good enough to win anything next season.

Smith took over in 2009, Briers retired at the end of 2013. He had plenty of time to build a team that "didn't have much else"....which I don't think is true anyway as they went out and got a MOS FB in Hodgson, splashed out to get two of the brightest young players in Myler and Ratchford, had a very strong two hooker rotation and two of the most consistent performing forwards in SL in Hill and Westwood.

McDermott has struggled this year, one single year with injury issues and a badly disrupted preseason and loss of their main training facility and a second massive leader in Peacock......Smith has taken a couple years to get back up to the top of the table and to a GF after 2013 after the retirement of Briers and without those other factors McDermott's had. And then he had to sign yet ANOTHER MoS winner and two NRL halfbacks because the ones they spent years grooming to be their HB partnership in Myler and O'Brien failed. With regards to McDermott also he might have his hands tied slightly in regards that GH will stay loyal to the likes of McGuire and Burrow whereas the coach might very well want to have some new guys in but can't have them.

Not only worst season in the history of SL, not only the worst season since I first started going to games in 1981, but the only season Leeds have found themselves playing tier 2 opposition in regular league fixtures ever.
Performances that were overwhelmingly dull and structureless throughout the season where we managed to look awful in the most boring and skilless league I've ever seen.
What coach keeps his job after that? He couldn't fix the problems we had and many of our best players have gone backwards at a rate of knots.
Thing is we could be competitive next season, the SL is that bad, but we would still be rubbish. It's all well and good people digging out their anti-Smith revisionist view of history (which is completely irrelevant to our current situation) but in the whole of 2016 our best performance probably wouldn't have come close to our worst of 2005.

Yeah, our hopes (or mine at least) are built on the SL standards being at an all time low at the top end to believe we can get back there again next year. I really haven't enjoyed or indeed bothered watching too many games this year. I actually enjoyed both semis at the weekend though, they were good, close intense contests. And the MPG was up there as one of the most memorable games of many a year for obvious reasons. Hopefully the GF will be a good one, the game needs it to be.

i felt for macdermott this year. the guy was really giving it his all and you could see that. i have enormous respect for him as a person too, no angry tirades blaming others like wane.
however i honestly don't think he's the guy to turn it around and take us forward.
i think it's time for a change

True. I guess it's easy to forget sometimes that nobody wants Leeds to do well more than him.

I started watching in 1967 and I can't remember a worse season generally in terms of all the things you highlight. Unless and until there is a serious rethink actually fear for top level RL in this hemisphere.

BTW I've watched a fair bit of the NRL on Premier and whilst the standard is clearly much higher I fear they are headed down the overcoached overstrucured and oversafe route there was a lot of dull stuff on display too

So McDermott took over in 2010 so he had six years to find/coach a replacement for Sinfield? Smith in that time managed to win 3 CC finals 2 against who was it? with a far inferior squad. Everyone is saying Leeds need a half back because the one McDermott groomed is now playing FB.

Lets see what McDermott inherited - Sinfield, Peacock, Burrow, McGuire, Ablett, Hall, Watkins, JJB, Webb, Buderus, Senior - you think Smith inherited anything like that at Warrington?

Yet more excuses - now he can't sign the players he wants because players he thought would be OK were offered contracts that have proved to be too long. McDermott has ridden on the back of a great side he inherited - look what's happened as soon as the key players have left? Must have been SPOTY, backslapping or a game against the Kiwis or the newly laid pitch, not once have suggested any of 2016 is McDermott's doing - good luck defending that one.

Smith joined Wire in 2009 and inherited players such as - Micky Monaghan (and his dog bothering bro a year later) Morley, Briers, Westwood, L Anderson, Carvell, King, Hicks, Wood, Mathers and Higham Not a bad core of senior pros there and there were good kids like Cooper and Harrison pushing through. Truth is, like at Leeds, Smith joined was the right man at the right time. Warrington had the squad they just needed the right man to see them from also rans to contenders for trophies imo. Despite all that though he still hasn't got them a SL trophy which they so crave...may change come saturday mind

Warrington were not far inferior to us in 2011 and 2012 and who won the 2011 playoff semi at there ground and beat them in 2012 GF??? As for them beating us twice in cup finals you'll find the first one was under McClennen.



He can hardly be blamed for Hardaker's personal behaviour. Also the one Smith spent time grooming is now playing FB for Salford kicking drop goals in MPG's so he's hardly perfect in that department.



No but he inherited a core of good players that was being added to as the years passed with money splashed out. At the same time Leeds stopped splashing out when it came to signings. Of those players they were also getting on and Peacock and McGuire missed the first half of his first year with serious knee injuries and McGuire's had to slowly adapt his game. Buderus he only got for one year (his best performances for us), Senior didn't see the season out and Webb wasn't too long after next year.



Come on we all know GH has the loyalty factor to players.



Like I pointed out, it took Smith a couple of years to get Wire back to the top after 2013 and he had his backwards year and a bit at Leeds too and he didn't even lose anybody then, Infact he added Peacock and proceeded to oversee Peacock's poorest year in a Leeds shirt. McDermott has had this 1 year under challenging circumstances with some bad obstacles thrown at them. Lots of decendants of Nostradamus' on this board are being too eager to confirm 2017 will be the same as 2016 and might look very foolish next year if it doesn't go the way they're predicting....then the excuse that "Leeds haven't got any better, everyone else have gotten worse" will be dusted off and rolled out after being used to explain 2015.

If 2017 follows suit then people will be correct that he isn't up to the job but despite them acting like it has, that hasn't actually happened yet.

Printer - I could agree with what you're saying if this year had been anything other than beyond awful. Completely unacceptable, and some team and individual performances were just horrible. This wasn't a poor year like 2006, or any of Wire's poorer seasons under Smith. In 2006 we finished third in the regular season with a one point play off loss to exit, and it was seen as a disaster. Well now we know what a real disaster looks like. All this with a squad which many thought looked pretty reasonable on paper before the start of the year.

In addition McD has been here for 6 seasons and yet our youth development pipeline looks very poor to me. we seem to be forever talking about 16 year olds being the next big thing. In a season like this I would have hoped we would at least have blooded a few more kids like we did a few years ago (under BM ironically). When needed we simply didn't have any near first team ready Academy players. That's dreadful for a club our size.

BTW people also forget that between 2004 and 2007 we had to replace 4 of our back 5 plus 4 forwards - i.e. half the team. Not the spine, but a lot of players nonetheless, and GH screwed up big time in some choices (Millard and O'Neill spring to mind).