Like i said above they must all be watching it as home as some form of curiousity as they certainly are not watching it in a pub.

By the way its Hatfield in Hertfordshire not South Yorkshire.

Also ever seen a school RL game down south as there are no School teams in Hertfordshire or Bedfordshire. All ths developement in the south must be in South London as it certainly is not in North London. St Albans Stags i belive it is or Luton Vipers are both based at RU teams. development hey

i dropped on a guy who was a director of a now championship club when i was a player their. we got onto talking about the game and he said he had resigned has a director at the club recentley because the game was bent,im also lead to believe he was at one stage on the rfl council and again he resigned because in his words things were done under hand with hidden agenda`s.no suprise their then because thats what we all know anyhow,what worries me is how many more of these people that keep our championship clubs going are going to pull out and walk away because of richard lewis and his hangeronners pipe dream of expansion at all costs and forget the rest,this guy is convinced that the franchise system was brought in to save the likes of expansion clubs because in time and reduction in overseas players will almost certainly mean they spend years lingering at the bottom end of super league before finally one year they finish bottom and would be beyond saving,has it stands at the minute we still have promotion and relegation the only difference is that the rfl choose who goes up and down not results on the field.

I can watch RL in my local.

Anyway, why does it matter whether they're watching at home or in the pub? Surely somebody watching it at home is more valuable to both Sky and the game as a whole. More people will see ads Sky sells, making them more valuable, making RL more profitable for Sky, encouraging Sky to keep hold of the rights.

Could you please expand on this puzzle you have posted.

Would I be right in thinking what you are saying is it is only southerners who go into pubs?

No but it's not a bad inidactor for the level of interest in the game...which we are always being told how massive and growing it is down there. Yet at one..if not the biggest and most traditional Rugby League event on the Calendar, this massive interest by Londoners just isn't there!

Well how shall we judge it? What actual measurable factor whall we use to judge if it is / has been successfull down there?....because every angle which the realists look at it isn't working! Ok we hear on tv a few persons saying how well it is taking off in the background...all the youngsters playing the game etc etc...yet there is nothing physically to support this suggestion, were there any London schools in the Schools finals before the Challenge Cup??? - NO!. Are these just pundits employed by, or saying the right things by SKY etc....possibly?

The factors that we use, are those that we can actually see.....not claims! actually physically see as facts.

Attendances at their home games - Poor, an not seemingly growing either!
Attendances at their away games - almost none existant!
Attendances at the big community finals Challenge cup or Grand Final - Rarely!
Financial viability - Clearly failing!

........So where is this most illusive of support? After 20 or 30 years and we are still not seeing it, it's not unreasonable to think that it doesn't exist and that it is just talked up hype and tripe!

For the few fans who do genuinely follow the Quins...credit to you. However, in terms of their eligibility for Superleague....all they do is tick a box for the almighty SKY, whose pocket our game now lives in!

You're right, it's a terrible indicator.

Your straw poll was of what? People wearing Quins shirts at Wembley?

You know that people don't have to wear their club's colours at events (I don't tend to)? Not withstanding the fact that not all London RL fans support Quins (I don't), or the fact that not everybody buys a replica shirt...

Add to that that you will have seen only a tiny percentage of the people at Wembley that day...


Well the number of Quins players brought through their academy – outstripping most other SL sides, would give ‘physical proof’ to this extremely valid point.


Perhaps you should start using some…


Valid point

Absolutely not the Quins issue.

Perhaps you should contact the RFL for actual facts and figures on the number of London based RL fans that attended the final… that would provide an actual number, rather than your ‘I saw three Cas shirts and one Quins shirt’ straw poll.

Certainly, but I suspect only at the same rate as other SL clubs.


It depends what you’re judging – support for Quins or support for RL in London?

In a family fortunes style survey of 100 London pubs who were asked to put the Superleague on the big screen on a Friday, or the NL1 on Thursday...the most popular answers experienced in our survey were..

1) No...there is some football/any football on, that we'd rather watch. 62%
2) No...what games that then? Is that different from Union then? 15%
3) No...we don't watch that in here. 14%
4) Of course I can mate, it's a right game 9%

These are peoples typical experiences that are expressed in previous posts.

Can you provide me/us with a link to this survey?

kthxbai

In regards to not wearing their shirts at the big community games, why not? The wearing of the shirt is for pride and support of the club that you support. Are Londoners they not proud to be Quinns supporters or supporters of their amateur club?

In the small section that I saw for 3 hours on Wembly Way before and 2 hours after the game I saw thousands proud supporters of the game in their shirts. I saw dozens school teams, junior teams, amateur teams from the Midlands, Cleveland, Cumbria, Yorkshire and Lancashire.....plus maybe a dozen from Catalan and 2 scorpions and 1 Celtic etc.

So why not for Londoners? Is this part of the illusive Londoners code of conduct....you must remain unseen, unquantifyable and in disguise at all times? Again it just doesn't add up!

In regards to the number of players coming through the Quinns academy in some ways it's a different process to that of other Superleague clubs.

As an example not even at Superleague level, areas like Oldham and surrounding villages there are dozens of junior and amateur teams from the age of about 6 years old. Each of which produce dozens of players who progress to either adult amateur, NL1 and NL2 teams and Superleague each year. Including famous names like Sculthorpe, Sinfield, Barry Mac and many more. However, because they generaly stay within reach of the area players end up playing for a whole host of teams at different levels from the east to west coasts.

I suspect at Quins that those within the academy can only progress to the Quinns first team, a few playing out of the area and the rest perhaps changing code or leaving the game. Hence in a way if they are a good but perhaps not great player they are almost guaranteed a spot in the first team line up when they come of age.

Otherwise who would you regard as being the junior and amateur feeder clubs for the Quinns? Of those you mention that have come through the academy...what was their junior and amateur clubs?

The answer is so simple , get rid of the quins , crusaders and Richard Lewis, bring back promotion and relegation and stop groundsharing with soccer clubs............... there all the games problems solved in one fell swoop

Faith restored by the greater supporters of the game....crowds growing at the grounds rather than the armchair! Job done, great post!!!

WTF? I don't wear a Cas shirt to work, nor on a weekend, nor when I'm out shopping. That doesn't mean I'm not proud of being a Cas fan... I probably won't wear it when I go to the Grand Final either... that doesn't mean I've got any qualms with people knowing I'm a Cas fan



I have no idea because I don't have the time or inclination to find out. To name two, Tony Clubb and LMS both were born in the south east, so I would assume they plied their trade locally.

Ok at work it may or may not be appropriate wear, shopping..who knows maybe, or maybe not. However, as I said why not wear the shirt with pride at these events 'rugby league' events?

It's a bit odd that 'all' the London club supporters decided not to, yet tens of thousands of other fans decided from every club nameable decided to.

Giving them the benefit of doubt and lets say that 2 or 3% of those present on Saturday were supporters of London based clubs, junior-amateur-professional etc, as it would be more convenient for them than any other supporter to attend. Yet, many saw nothing of them. Why were they so invisible at the event?

So let me get it straight....a) we only see a few of the London rugby supporters at their ground....or B) none at any of our grounds....or C) hidden at major rugby league events, d) They don't wear their shirts in public. They are well disguised aren't they!! some might even question if they actually exist, and are more theoretical! How will I know if I ever see one in the flesh?

My question about the feeder clubs for Quinns is very valid. The game starts at the grass roots with volunteers, mums, dads, kids and dirty kits twice a week. If that isn't there, neither are the foundations from which to build in the London area.

After reading this 'argument', there is only one response:-

Just because its the 21st century doesnt mean we have to sacrifice integrity for some idiotic expansion idea from a man who prefers tennis to our game

wake up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cannot make my mind up if Gazemous is taking the or not ? names two players from darn south ? what about scotland ? same distance theres more scotish playing the game than cockneys and no team up there get a grip ! bullter !

If you think the answer to any big Rugby League problem is [isimple[/i then the odds are you have a simple mind. Even as an expansionist, I wouldn't say that the answer to our problems is [isimply[/i expansion. Let's analyse this ingenious plan of yours.

1) [iStop ground sharing with soccer clubs.[/i

Presumably this would involve Halifax, Hull FC, Huddersfield Giants, Wigan Warriors etc all vacating their 21st century stadiums to go....where exactly? Play on a park field? Build a new stadium? Well we can see how building a new one is working out with Cas and Wakey, turns out it's pretty hard to get your own stadium built. I should imagine it's even harder to secure funding for such a venture when your already playing in a very good stadium.

2) [iKick Crusaders and Quins to the curb, regardless of whether they go bankrupt or manage to find new owners. [/i

Sky use this as leverage to cut our TV Contract, all our junior work in the South East goes down the toilet, and the good people of Wrexham who have given Crusaders a larger fan base than Salford despite only being in the town less than a year stop watching the game. Oh and if the TV contract did get cut the RFL might just decide to reduce the size of Super league to 12 or 10 teams, which would surely see Cas or Wakey get kicked out anyway. Then again you would probably fail to see the reasoning behind that and put it down to a vast conspiracy by the RFL to destroy the game from within.

=#FF00BF1)If it levels the playing field up a bit , then yes, make them fund a new stadium instead of bleating about clubs who are trying their dammndest to do so.
Soccer lodgers out

=#FF00BF2) How many 'new' owners must the rfl finance, and to not believe that i this is going on is niaevety at its most obvious, Fact is , some hardworking club that is managing to keep its head above water (just) is going to be dumped for this farcical london 30 year experiment, as for sky , I emailed them and recieved an answer that the superleague package is not reliant on the member clubs, another myth destroyed

Time to close the money pit

All you are doing is coming up with reasons why quims should stay in, Do you really think anyone will let their club be relegated for the sake of some so called expansion clubs, if you do you are smoking some illegal substance or giving it some in a glue bag. Expansion yes but not at the expense of my club, no way. You keep on about Sky dropping revenue if you are not in, Where is your proof of this, ? How did you get to this reasoning ? show me where Sky have said this, show me where the RFL or Sky say it will be a lesser team competition, Ill not hold my breath though.

Another point what you fail to take into account is the value of away support, Where is your support for away games ? Clubs rely on this revenue, as do your's so the rest of the SL clubs have to factor in that when your in town, they have to rely on the home support revenue alone, where as your club rubs there hands at traveling support income. How can this be sustained ?

Why do you resort to calling an individual names because they don't agree with you. Come back with a reasoned approach and you might get what your looking for, but if you really think Cas supporters will scream foul if your dumped then you are definitely smoking something, likewise i wouldn't expect you to give one about Cas if we get dumped,

What are you on about re Scotland? How many current SL players were born, bred and learnt their RL trade in Scotland?

A few facts for you:

Current internationals born and brought up in London and the South East: 2
Number of Quins players who have played in SL 2010 born and brought up in London and the South East: 13
Junior clubs in London: 25
Number of youth players in London in 2010: 2,000
Number of adult amateur players in London in 2010: 1,600
[url=http://www.londonrl.co.uk/playsource[/url

Feel free to give accurate figures for Scotland...



It's eloquent discussion and debate like that that helps the glowing reputation our fans currently enjoy.

I'll clarify my position on Quins: I believe they should be in SL if they satisfy the criteria, their crowds, finances and on field performances obviously are cause for concern, and they're clearly in danger of dropping out. The position of some people in the M62 corridor seems to be making up things based on misinformation, rumour and lies. It always seems to be fans of clubs who are also under threat that seem to purport these lies and it is, quite frankly, pathetic.

Here Here well said that man

There's been some robust defence of Quins by their supporters in recent weeks, particularly with regard to accusations that the RFL have bailed them out or that they have had preferential treatment, and looking into the issue I came across this news article on the BBC website from last year: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 388266.stm Can anyone explain what Richard Lewis meant by "...there is no reason why they can't get good crowds and be a full paying member of the Super League," and "I think it is understandable that some people are saying there should be as much pressure on them as other clubs in terms of pulling their weight in Super League." Hardly a denial that they weren't getting preferential treatment. On Skytext at the moment it says, 'The RFL revealed last year there were concerns over crowd attendances at Quins, but they are determined to keep a Super League team in London.' All of this suggests to me Quins have been getting some extra help. The RFL certainly don't appear to be determined to keep a SL team anywhere else in England.

There's been some robust defence of Quins by their supporters in recent weeks, particularly with regard to accusations that the RFL have bailed them out or that they have had preferential treatment, and looking into the issue I came across this news article on the BBC website from last year: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 388266.stm Can anyone explain what Richard Lewis meant by "...there is no reason why they can't get good crowds and be a full paying member of the Super League," and "I think it is understandable that some people are saying there should be as much pressure on them as other clubs in terms of pulling their weight in Super League." Hardly a denial that they weren't getting preferential treatment. On Skytext at the moment it says, 'The RFL revealed last year there were concerns over crowd attendances at Quins, but they are determined to keep a Super League team in London.' All of this suggests to me Quins have been getting some extra help. The RFL certainly don't appear to be determined to keep a SL team anywhere else in England.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ue_players you have more time on ya hand gaz you do the math. i think its going to be another crusaders this as the further north you move the more support you will get simples. i can see them moving next to a city like nottingham i bet theres more adult players playing there than london and south east i wonder what the ratio london/south east is to the nottingham area ? 1) how many grounds have they used as Fulham / London Crusaders / London Broncos / Harlequins ? 2) how much extra money have the rfl pumped in from 1980 ? theres two to start you off

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ue_players you have more time on ya hand gaz you do the math. i think its going to be another crusaders this as the further north you move the more support you will get simples. i can see them moving next to a city like nottingham i bet theres more adult players playing there than london and south east i wonder what the ratio london/south east is to the nottingham area ? 1) how many grounds have they used as Fulham / London Crusaders / London Broncos / Harlequins ? 2) how much extra money have the rfl pumped in from 1980 ? theres two to start you off