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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Come on pal, what is your opinion on the handling of EXAM RESULTS, that is the topic here.
'"
they have admitted they made errors, do we really need to keep poking this with a stick?
What else coukd they do?
All you want to do is moan about the Government, it seems it is all you ever do, moan.
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| If they actually did a competent job then we and all the press would not be able to find fault unfortunately in virtually everything they have done as been a failure requiring a U turn. This is coupled with their dogmatic approach to continue to believe they are right despite the evidence pointing to the opposite. The problem with this approach when a pandemic hits means we have the highest death rate in Europe exacerbated by their inability to do the basics like prepare for it despite warnings and even then look to blame others the last resort of a desperate government. Then we have education, once again despite warnings these were ignored and now we see students trying to resurrect their education at new universities because their first choice is full. What does the government do but dig their heels in and now it was nothing to do with us but the regulator as per usual.
I am afraid that this will continue with Johnson because he is no more than a front who has surrounded himself with a cabinet of failures who have been appointed because they will accept rule by Cummins. I can’t wait for Brexit to arrive based on the way things have gone how do you think that will go.
I wait for IR80 to advise what the government have done which was a success and help improve both the death rate and improve students educational future. I don’t consider changing the method of counting the dead as a success.
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"If they actually did a competent job then we and all the press would not be able to find fault unfortunately in virtually everything they have done as been a failure requiring a U turn. This is coupled with their dogmatic approach to continue to believe they are right despite the evidence pointing to the opposite. The problem with this approach when a pandemic hits means we have the highest death rate in Europe exacerbated by their inability to do the basics like prepare for it despite warnings and even then look to blame others the last resort of a desperate government. Then we have education, once again despite warnings these were ignored and now we see students trying to resurrect their education at new universities because their first choice is full. What does the government do but dig their heels in and now it was nothing to do with us but the regulator as per usual.
I am afraid that this will continue with Johnson because he is no more than a front who has surrounded himself with a cabinet of failures who have been appointed because they will accept rule by Cummins. I can’t wait for Brexit to arrive based on the way things have gone how do you think that will go.
I wait for IR80 to advise what the government have done which was a success and help improve both the death rate and improve students educational future. I don’t consider changing the method of counting the dead as a success.'"
You will never see anything a Conservative government do as a success, you simply believe that Socialism is the answer, if anypne is dogmatic, it's quite possibly you.
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| Quote ="IR80"You will never see anything a Conservative government do as a success, you simply believe that Socialism is the answer, if anypne is dogmatic, it's quite possibly you.'"
That's probably based upon the experiences of the last 12 years of Tory government.
So, using the words of John Cleese, "What have the Tories ever done for us?"
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| Quote ="silver2"That's probably based upon the experiences of the last 12 years of Tory government.
So, using the words of John Cleese, "What have the Tories ever done for us?"'"
[url=https://www.david-davies.org.uk/campaigns/achievements-current-governmentquite a lot, actually.[/url
if you take of those red tinted spectacles for a while.
Reduced the deficit (until Covid came along at least)
Record Public Sector investment
Delivering the will of the electorate by leaving the EU
Protecting our defence capability
and that is just in the early years, after Labour plunged us into recession.
they haven't engaged in illegal war, sold our economy down the river...
a damn sight more than Labour ever achieved.
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| Quote ="IR80"they have admitted they made errors, do we really need to keep poking this with a stick?
What else coukd they do?
All you want to do is moan about the Government, it seems it is all you ever do, moan.'"
So that's a NO then,
We can read the papers, listen to the news to see what has happened, which was exactly why I began the thread
.
I've clearly shown my opinion and I asked YOU for YOURS but, you dont have on or, maybe are unwilling to share it.
That's how debate works, an exchange of information or opinion.
So, do you agree that they made a balls of things or did they get it right.
Come on, tea or coffee question, lets see if YOU can answer.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"So that's a NO then,
We can read the papers, listen to the news to see what has happened, which was exactly why I began the thread
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I've clearly shown my opinion and I asked YOU for YOURS but, you dont have on or, maybe are unwilling to share it.
That's how debate works, an exchange of information or opinion.
So, do you agree that they made a balls of things or did they get it right.
Come on, tea or coffee question, lets see if YOU can answer.
'"
debate with you is like pushing water up hill, you have such a closed anti Tory mind it's untrue.
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| Quote ="IR80"debate with you is like pushing water up hill, you have such a closed anti Tory mind it's untrue.'"
Come on pal, that's 2 simple chances to answer a simple question
At least we know for sure that you have no opinion.
You cant say that I didn't try to engage but, even a question with only 2 answers seems beyond you
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| No answer is still no answer, if you cannot defend the government’s actions with regards handling the pandemic and education we must presume your sole purpose is to just disrupt the thread. We gave you several opportunities to tell us why their actions were acceptable but chose or could not do so.
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| Quote ="IR80"[url=https://www.david-davies.org.uk/campaigns/achievements-current-governmentquite a lot, actually.[/url
if you take of those red tinted spectacles for a while.
Reduced the deficit (until Covid came along at least)
Record Public Sector investment
Delivering the will of the electorate by leaving the EU
Protecting our defence capability
and that is just in the early years, after Labour plunged us into recession.
they haven't engaged in illegal war, sold our economy down the river...
a damn sight more than Labour ever achieved.'"
Cant see the NHS on your list...........................
Maybe that wasn't started by the Tories
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| As per IR80s request, I have taken off my red tinted spectacles for a while and this is what I’ve found in response to his claims of Tory successes:
Reduced the deficit (until Covid came along at least) – partially true
• The national deficit before the 2008 crash was 3% of GDP it then rose to 10% in 2009/10. In Feb 2020 it was back to 2.7% of GDP – and as you say Covid will no doubt cause it to rise again. So, Labour fell foul of an International banking crash, the Tories are falling foul of an International pandemic.
Record Public Sector investment - wrong
• Public sector net investment was 3% of GDP in 2009. It then dropped to around 2% during the austerity years. It is projected to increase back up to 3% by 2023.
Delivering the will of the electorate by leaving the EU - wrong
• In 2016 52% of the electorate voted in favour of an undefined Brexit. In 2019 43% of the electorate voted in favour of the Brexit as set out in the Tory manifesto.
• The latest opinion polls show that 50% believe that leaving the EU was a mistake and only 36% believe it to have been the right decision
Protecting our defence capability - wrong
• Defence spending in 2020 is about 2.2% of GDP, a figure which has remained the around same since at least 2000.
• Cummings, (who spent some time in Russia) however is visiting key MOD sites prior to a defence review later this year, He has refused to appear in front of the Defence select Committee to explain what he is doing.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Come on pal, what is your opinion on the handling of EXAM RESULTS, that is the topic here.
'"
First failure - the exams should have been sat - no reason whatsoever for not holding the exams
Second failure - allowing ofqual to not robustly test the algorithm to ensure it would deliver fairness
Third failure - allowing teacher assessments to used - bonkers - teachers will overstate the grade - knowing it would be knocked back
Fourth failure - saying no u turn and then u turn
All in all a complete disaster - Labour would have simply taken the easy option of awarding based on teacher assessments to keep all their unions mates sweet.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"First failure - the exams should have been sat - no reason whatsoever for not holding the exams
Second failure - allowing ofqual to not robustly test the algorithm to ensure it would deliver fairness
Third failure - allowing teacher assessments to used - bonkers - teachers will overstate the grade - knowing it would be knocked back
Fourth failure - saying no u turn and then u turn
All in all a complete disaster - Labour would have simply taken the easy option of awarding based on teacher assessments to keep all their unions mates sweet.'"
I dont think you can say what Labour would have done, while they are in opposition ,all of this falls on Boris' shoulders.
The point here is that the party in charge have abjectly failed, on every aspect of the exam debacle.
I do agree that many exams could and should have taken place but, you can add that to the list of failings.
Where is Boris anyway.
Things are getting difficult again and he's gone AWOL.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"
All in all a complete disaster - Labour would have simply taken the easy option of awarding based on teacher assessments to keep all their unions mates sweet.'"
This is probably one of the strangest statements you have made. I and neither do you know what would have happened under a Labour government, you can of course surmise based on your Union bias. The problem is that the Conservatives are in charge and what they did despite the usual warnings caused a lot of confusion and hurt to students before resorting to what you believe would be the stance taken by Labour.
I suppose they made this decision not to support their union enemies but because it was the obvious outcome following their many failures. It is possible that a Labour government would have seen the problems coming several weeks ago and done things differently, they could not have done it worse.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873":3rfd0ixjI dont think you can say what Labour would have done
Hmmm,think maybe you can.
The Welsh Assembly is Labour controlled,but they went along with the same method.
As did the SNP controlled and UUP controlled assemblies of Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Seems to me all the parties got this one wrong.
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"This is probably one of the strangest statements you have made. I and neither do you know what would have happened under a Labour government, you can of course surmise based on your Union bias. The problem is that the Conservatives are in charge and what they did despite the usual warnings caused a lot of confusion and hurt to students before resorting to what you believe would be the stance taken by Labour.
I suppose they made this decision not to support their union enemies but because it was the obvious outcome following their many failures. It is possible that a Labour government would have seen the problems coming several weeks ago and done things differently, they could not have done it worse.'"
Labour were calling for this outcome all along - so you know exactly what Labour would have done - what did Labour do in Wales?
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Labour were calling for this outcome all along - so you know exactly what Labour would have done - what did Labour do in Wales?'"
Kirsty William's, the Welsh Education Minister, is a Liberal Democrat.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Labour were calling for this outcome all along - so you know exactly what Labour would have done - what did Labour do in Wales?'"
Sorry Sal but, you are totally wrong.
There was a sequence of events that got us up to this point, right from virus arriving in the UK and through lockdown, school closures etc, etc.
Had Labour been at the helm, do you believe they would have taken exactly the same route ??
Some things they may have handled better and others, no doubt, worse.
However, the current mess falls firmly at the feet of Bojo.
His decisions, his style of leadership and of course him backing the beleaguered Education Minister.
To try and say things "would have been the same" is just plain daft and is just making excuses for this excuse of a government.
Bojo has everyone in his party nodding along, too afraid to question anything for fear of being booted into the long grass.
Also, you will perhaps recall me suggesting that blame for the handling of the covid crisis would e planted at the door of Public Health England, an organisation which has now been replaced.
How very convenient and responsibility for the mess now put at someone else's door. Spineless and two faced, lets see what happens next.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Sorry Sal but, you are totally wrong.
There was a sequence of events that got us up to this point, right from virus arriving in the UK and through lockdown, school closures etc, etc.
Had Labour been at the helm, do you believe they would have taken exactly the same route ??
Some things they may have handled better and others, no doubt, worse.
However, the current mess falls firmly at the feet of Bojo.
His decisions, his style of leadership and of course him backing the beleaguered Education Minister.
To try and say things "would have been the same" is just plain daft and is just making excuses for this excuse of a government.
Bojo has everyone in his party nodding along, too afraid to question anything for fear of being booted into the long grass.
Also, you will perhaps recall me suggesting that blame for the handling of the covid crisis would e planted at the door of Public Health England, an organisation which has now been replaced.
How very convenient and responsibility for the mess now put at someone else's door. Spineless and two faced, lets see what happens next.'"
With no credible opposition, another Conservative win at the next GE.
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| Quote ="IR80"With no credible opposition, another Conservative win at the next GE.'"
That's the first thing that you've said which could be right
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"That's the first thing that you've said which could be right
'"
That's the first thing you've said that is definitely wrong.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln
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| Quote ="silver2"That's the first thing you've said that is definitely wrong.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln'"
seems to me you have been fooled for decades by the outmoded socialist ideal.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Sorry Sal but, you are totally wrong.
There was a sequence of events that got us up to this point, right from virus arriving in the UK and through lockdown, school closures etc, etc.
Had Labour been at the helm, do you believe they would have taken exactly the same route ??
Some things they may have handled better and others, no doubt, worse.
However, the current mess falls firmly at the feet of Bojo.
His decisions, his style of leadership and of course him backing the beleaguered Education Minister.
To try and say things "would have been the same" is just plain daft and is just making excuses for this excuse of a government.
Bojo has everyone in his party nodding along, too afraid to question anything for fear of being booted into the long grass.
Also, you will perhaps recall me suggesting that blame for the handling of the covid crisis would e planted at the door of Public Health England, an organisation which has now been replaced.
How very convenient and responsibility for the mess now put at someone else's door. Spineless and two faced, lets see what happens next.'"
Had Labour been in charge lockdown would have been earlier and longer - their view is to dismantle the private sector - the more damage that can be done the better. Don't forget you had a shadow chancellor that was going to nationalise trains, utilities, broadband, generic drugs, education, supply of anything to the NHS etc.
Not a chance the exams would have happened under Labour - I am not saying the opening up of the schools would not have been handled better e.g. temporary facilities etc.
The teaching unions were well against any school opening apart from the one Starmer's kids go to no way Corbyn/McDonald would have challenged them - first job would have been relaxing union legislation including secondary picketing.
Would Labour have handled the rest of pandemic better than the Tories - I can't see how they could have done a worse job to be honest
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| I'm not a Labour voter but no one of any political persuasion should be happy at having a lackluster opposition. It is a pre-requisite for a vibrant Democracy, and utterly crucial for keeping the government of the day honest. The Conservatives demonstrated that you trample around the wilderness for quite a while (Ian Duncan-Smith, Michael Howard etc) before finding your way back to being credible government in waiting. Labour are on a very long road back from oblivion and it will take some time. But to pretend they haven't turned a corner under the new leader is wishful thinking by some.
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