I'm afraid the NHS going forward will have to reform or die. The fact is research is finding more and more ways to keep us alive and it comes at a cost. I truly believe that a complete and honest review is needed instead of tinkering around the edges. We all (i hope) want a properly run and funded NHS. How we do that without bankrupting the country I have no idea. It can't be just throwing money at it or the extra cash will just get swallowed up. And I no I will get derided for this but maybe we need to get back to basics and stop funding, for example, IVF or gastric band operations, sex changes etc

Having watched my Dad die with dementia & seeing how much time my old Mum spends at the doctors/hospital - usually a couple of times a week - it hits you how much it must cost to keep people alive. You do question the quality of people’s lives. Apart from the odd God-botherer I’m yet to meet someone who doesn’t want their life terminating if they got into a similar condition. It is an endless quest to make people live longer. And some people make a fortune out of the misery, so the pressure will continue.

You will get derided, but I completely agree.

If someone cannot get pregnant, then why are we paying for it to be done falsely, if somone is born with a penis, they are male, if someone is fat, stop eating so much, if someone doesn't like their breasts, tough.

The NHS should be for emergencies, not flights of fancy.

Sack 90% of the administration in the NHS, especially the board members, tax the companies that supply the drugs, kill the nanny state that La(boring) created, return to survival of the fittest.

I’ve not insulted you ever before IR. There was a sad loner called Garbutt, who lived in an abandoned house on Preston Road, who could barely string more than a sentence together. But he was brighter than you.

Quote ="wotsupcas"I'm afraid the NHS going forward will have to reform or die. The fact is research is finding more and more ways to keep us alive and it comes at a cost. I truly believe that a complete and honest review is needed instead of tinkering around the edges. We all (i hope) want a properly run and funded NHS. How we do that without bankrupting the country I have no idea. It can't be just throwing money at it or the extra cash will just get swallowed up. And I no I will get derided for this but maybe we need to get back to basics and stop funding, for example, IVF or gastric band operations, sex changes etc'" Since it’s creation the budget for the nhs has risen by 3.7% a year. With our ageing population I’d say that needs to be at least at 4% per year, that is certainly affordable if we (the government) choose to fund it. This article has a nice graphic of how the funding has changed over the years, both Cameron/Clegg and May chose not to properly fund the nhs. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... h-44495598

Quote ="wotsupcas"I'm afraid the NHS going forward will have to reform or die. The fact is research is finding more and more ways to keep us alive and it comes at a cost. I truly believe that a complete and honest review is needed instead of tinkering around the edges. We all (i hope) want a properly run and funded NHS. How we do that without bankrupting the country I have no idea. It can't be just throwing money at it or the extra cash will just get swallowed up. And I no I will get derided for this but maybe we need to get back to basics and stop funding, for example, IVF or gastric band operations, sex changes etc'" Since it’s creation the budget for the nhs has risen by 3.7% a year. With our ageing population I’d say that needs to be at least at 4% per year, that is certainly affordable if we (the government) choose to fund it. This article has a nice graphic of how the funding has changed over the years, both Cameron/Clegg and May chose not to properly fund the nhs. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... h-44495598

Back on topic George Clarke’s Council House Scandal was a great programme on Channel 4 looking at our housing crisis, it’s well worth watching on catchup tv.

Some figures from the programme off the top of my head. We previously had 8 million council houses, we now have just 2 million. The rest have been sold through right to buy.

Right to buy, started by Thatcher, allows an individual to buy a £200k house for £60k. Only a tiny fraction of this goes to the local authority, with the majority going to central government. This means the local authority can not afford to replace the houses sold. We once were building almost 200,000 council houses a year, we now build 6,000 a year.

Over 40% of council houses sold under buy to let are now rented out privately, in some areas its over 70%.

Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"Since it’s creation the budget for the nhs has risen by 3.7% a year. With our ageing population I’d say that needs to be at least at 4% per year, that is certainly affordable if we (the government) choose to fund it. This article has a nice graphic of how the funding has changed over the years, both Cameron/Clegg and May chose not to properly fund the nhs. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... h-44495598'" But the last Labour government borrowed heavily to fund the NHS at the rate they did. Leaving the next govt to carry the can. And that really is my point... Its not sustainable. We can't just throw money at the problem without some serious reform. We probably both want the same outcome but differ on how to reach the end goal.

Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"Since it’s creation the budget for the nhs has risen by 3.7% a year. With our ageing population I’d say that needs to be at least at 4% per year, that is certainly affordable if we (the government) choose to fund it. This article has a nice graphic of how the funding has changed over the years, both Cameron/Clegg and May chose not to properly fund the nhs. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... h-44495598'" But the last Labour government borrowed heavily to fund the NHS at the rate they did. Leaving the next govt to carry the can. And that really is my point... Its not sustainable. We can't just throw money at the problem without some serious reform. We probably both want the same outcome but differ on how to reach the end goal.

This isn’t true. In 1997 when Labour came to power debt was 43.4% of GDP. In 2006, the year before the global financial crisis and after 10 years of a Labour government, debt had fallen to 40.7% of GDP.

OK but what was it in 2010 when they left power?

Double post

Debt increased from 2007 because of the global financial crisis and the subsequent bailing out of the bankers, nationalising their losses, not as you claimed borrowing to properly fund the nhs, as was proved with the 1997 and 2006 figures.

In 2010 the conservatives were in power with debt at 72.5% of GDP. This has now skyrocketed to 85.2% of GDP because of the tax cuts they have given to millionaires and multinational companies, despite the devastating cuts to essential services.

But that's not true is it. Tax revenue increased by 25% between 2010 and 2017.....way ahead of inflation. It was 414bn in 2010 and in 2017 (the last figures I could find) 570bn.

You know you are posting to a closed mind. Conseratives are bad, commerce is bad, the EU is bad.

An underfunded nhs is bad
A properly funded nhs is good

Cutting public sector workers, like nurses pay, because there is no magic money tree is bad
Returning nurses pay to 2010 levels is good

Cutting funding to schools is bad
Well funded education is good

Spending £4.2 Billion to undemocratically leave the EU without a deal is bad

Increasing tuition fees to £9000 when you went to university for free is bad
Scrapping tuition fees is good

Reducing police numbers by 21,000 and closing police stations is bad

Homelessness increasing by 250% since 2010 is bad
Sorting out the housing crisis and reducing homelessness is good

Refusing to spend money, given to us by the EU, to tackle homelessness and child poverty is bad

As I have said before, you left leaning (extremely left leaning) politics do not work, Socilism does not work. We are not equals, someone else's poverty isnt my problem, they should work harder.

We voted to leave the EU, deal with that, or get a flight with BREN2K and move to another country. The UK probably wouldn't miss you. Take tigertot with you.

If I thought Socialism produced people as illiterate as you I would question my politics.

More insults, how clever of you, you must be a genius. (or most likely failed the 11+) and are whiling your days down in a tiny pit village somewhere in West Yorkshire.

More insults, how clever of you, you must be a genius.

I am. I'm a product of Socialism.

Yup, deluded, jealous and want everyone else to pay. Socialism in a nut shell.

Lazy, uninformed and puerile; Garbutt or IR80, the signature style is unmistakable.

How interesting, it seems like you've change your mind on at least one issue ??
It's "your lot" that want out of the EU, remember ?

The homelessness problem has been chronic in Manchester this decade. It is like some sort of homeless Mecca. As well as the local accent I have heard Lancastrian Scouse Yorkshire and Glaswegian accents amongst the homeless population of my city centre.

It’s like they know the homeless community has been thriving (numbers of homeless, amount of drugs available, safety in numbers ut many get a rude awakening on that front once they get here) in Manchester so come from far and wide to be part of it.

Our Mayor has this as one of his primary jobs to solve. And I have to say in the last 18 months I’ve noticed less aggressive begging, and fewer spice zombies in their statuesque or shaker mantra state strewn around the streets (around three years ago it was rife with this).

The Mayor has a long term (two decade) plan for homelessness in the city.

Next month Vincent Kompany is having his testimonial at the Etihad and all proceeds are going to the Manchester Homeless Fund.

A good start has been made towards the chronic homeless problem in Manchester. Onwards and upwards, let’s hope it continues.

But the root cause of all this needs to be looked at as well, rather than just at the street level... mental illness due to the modern capitalist society we have. Most of these people cannot cope with life in the society that’s been built around them. Whether they be mentally ill through the stresses of life responsibilities of working to pay your way, to ex-soldiers who have PTSD, people who can’t mentally deal with being separated from in a relationship or losing a loved one so see their lives crumble around them, as well as uneducated people who have no skills and therefore cannot get jobs because they don’t have the intelligence or skill set to do anything.

That’s where everything eventually needs to be drawn to.

There’s also a problem with professional beggers here. They have a home, or some sort of living condition, they aren’t homeless. But they get up every morning, get their scruffs on, get on the bus to Town and sit on the floor in the city centre and beg for money. Then before the last bus leaves in the early hours, they get on it with all the money they’ve been given through the day and get off home to their home or whatever living situation they’re in.

How this can be tackled is a mystery.

As someone who has been involved with a homeless charity for a number of years, the real problem is the unecessary red tape that stops people getting off the streets thanks to the Tory government

It has been proven cheaper to give homeless people a decent roof over their head & proper support, than the current mess the homeless exist in. But the right wing insist on those less well off suffering.