In my bubble Cathy Newman’s infamy comes from saying she was thrown out of a mosque when she wasn’t thrown out of mosque.

I did read about the JP interview sometime after it, and looked it up on YouTube. The top hit was an interview by JP with a friendlier interviewer about the Newman interview. I watched a bit of it and what he said seemed reasonable enough, in isolation. I just find his tone rather querulous and didactic, and his delivery somewhat plodding. I imagine it to be a similar feeling to that on the other side of this cultural and political divide feel when being ‘lectured by finger-wagging liberals’.

In contrast, when somebody (possibly Sally Cinnamon) provided a link on here to talk given by Cummings, I watched and enjoyed all 40 or so minutes of it. I don’t know if I find his ideas more interesting because his manner is more engaging, or vice versa or both. Probably both, on balance. He doesn’t try to milk one idea or feel like he has to wait for you to catch up. More than anything, he makes some good points, imo. Pretty much everything (not much, I admit - life is short) I’ve heard from Peterson was a statement of the bleeding obvious dressed up in original thought clothing, or just earnestly spoken (imo).

Likewise



If someone like you thinks that, then I'm doing something right. I don't associate with lockdown-breaking smackrats and would hate to be considered a friend.

I didn't know about that. Seems like a genuine error though she was pretty quick to remark before ascertaining the facts.


True, JP can become a little tiresome in his delivery. I enjoy what he says far more than how he says it.

I didn't watch the link on Cummings. I'd be interested if you or Sally came across it again, simply to get a better idea of what he's about.

What about Dominic Cummings who’s circle I am pretty sure you would not reach, his trip to Barnard Castle was deemed to have been unlawful and if intercepted by the police would have been instructed to return home. If it was lawful based on the same criteria one would presume he would have been instructed to carry on.
I dread to think what action they would have taken if stopped and him coming up with the eye sight excuse. You may not associate with him but you are happy to accept his lockdown breaking therefore what is he.

Well for a start they're British National (Overseas) or BN(O) passport holders, which doesn't currently give them the right to live or work here, but gives them right to remain for 6 months.

The government are considering extending right to remain to 12 months and there is a train of though that modern immigration laws would permit right of abode though this appears to run contrary to the 1984 Sino-British joint declaration on the future of Hong Kong.

What do I think? I think if it's legal, fair enough and I can certainly empathise with the desire to escape the Chinese regime. It's unlikely 300,000 would seek abode in the UK as other nations would probably open their arms, but it's worth considering the impact a couple of hundred thousand would have in addition to normal net migration of about 230k a year.

It is Dominic Cummings speech at IPPR in 2014.

Obviously, it is against the rules to post links to video sharing sites - but this has been made available by the Institute of Public Policy Research themselves, so I think I’m sticking to the spirit of the rules by hinting at how you might find it. If this leads to lots of people posting links to copyrighted materials, then, because I suspect Admin value me less as a moderator than Johnson values Cummings as an advisor, I’ll be sacked from my unpaid role. So, everyone, please don’t.

I can’t easily give you a weblink anyway as I have the App on my iPad, and I can’t work out how.

The speech and Q&A is a bit longer than I remembered, but as I say I found it interesting.

Bit of a difference between someone who went into isolation with his family, didn't break any social distancing guidelines, and whose biggest sin was an ill-advised drive. And I've already said his Barnard Castle excuse is a stretch of the imagination. But Durham police happen to have reached the same conclusion as me: it was minor and frankly give over whining.

Counter that with someone who boasts repeatedly of breaking lockdown to go bone some desperate rancid skank - and if he's doing that and boasting about it that it's fair to assume he blatantly doesn't give a sh.t about you, me, his neighbours, his family or anyone else, and has been breaking the lockdown throughout.

Fact is, the biggest threat with this virus is not going for a drive with your family, the biggest threat is promoting the spread of the virus via personal contact.

It's one thing thinking with your dick (although tiny it's probably his most intelligent organ), but bragging about it takes a particularly despicable type of person.

Did Cummings not return to number 10 after visiting his wife who he believed to have the virus. I wonder how many people he came into contact between leaving home and his time at number 10.

And although not a single one of you has had the balls to criticise our resident smackrat, will any of you step up to denounce Andy Dawson - the sometime Guardian columnist, podcaster, colleague of Bob Mortimer and outspoken left winger, who tweeted to Michael Gove's WIFE that he would pay cash to assault her husband, specifying he would prefer to do this in front of her kids?

Oh, and he then deleted his twitter and complained of 'vile harassment' (lol), but not before filming himself requesting opportunities to pay for someone to assault Michael Gove.

Anyone? One of you?

Nah, doubt it. He's one of yours, ain't he? It's ok if it's one of yours.

We could also comment on Johnson who was recorded being asked to obtain the address of a journalist to his friend who wanted to arrange his beating.
You will of course want to denounce this type of action.

Never heard of him, but assuming that is true and there are no extraordinary extenuating circumstances (e.g. extreme previous provocation by Vine or Gove) that is clearly very, very bad.




Also very, very bad. 30 years ago, and I know about his classicist warrior caste self-image. Easier to carry off if he looked like Gerard Butler in 300 rather than a middle-aged albino Billy Bunter.

Absolutely
But the Sin Bins very own baby from the bullrushes won't worry about things like that .

My understanding of the not making unnecessary journeys advice was to limit the number of vehicles on the road, to limit the risk of road traffic accidents, to ensure hospital beds weren't taken up by Sunday drivers taking unnecessary journeys.

Both have tried to pass their comments off as badly misjudged jokes. This is where the bias comes in, imo - having looked up Dawson’s tweet the language seems to me to be deliberately over the top comedic. Maybe trying to channel Frankie Boyle but without the absurdity that undercuts the harshness. That doesn’t excuse it and I can appreciate that being on the other end of it, it wouldn’t be remotely funny. I don’t like Vine or Gove’s politics, but there’s a danger in these times of dehumanising people we disagree with or find unappealing. Obviously, I tend to think of Johnson as the sort of guy who would straight-facedly conspire in arranging an assault. Not that I’d regard him as competent to help accurately target a beating.

That who made the rape ‘jokes’ about Jess Phillips... apparently even mild, little old me is happy to dehumanise him.

I guess a lot of us enjoy ‘robust humour’ and then turn snowflake when it is at the expense of something or someone we value. If you don’t regard Gove as being a ‘rank poophouse’, then I imagine Dawson’s tweet looks that much worse and it is all the harder to understand why somebody would be so cruel.

You can count me in for the denunciation- no problem

Back on Cummings, it seems that you believe the resto his STORY, wow.


His explanation still reads like a litany of excuses for the numerous sightings of him, after leaving his London home, unnecessarily.
There COULD have been an issue with childcare, as there could for EVERY other household in the UK, where a parent has contracted the virus but, there WASNT.

Equally, by returning to his office, having been in contact with someone (his wife), who he believed had the virus, he COULD have spread the infection within government offices.
This is way more irresponsible than the unnecessary trip North

We also notice that Boris, far from listening to the science, now, prefers to gag them.
Clearly, if allowed to answer, they would have been at odds with the government so, it's all good.

Analyis of the scum media hashtag.

[urlhttps://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1266104443239530496[/url

Cronus was really quiet and didn't seem to complain when Gina Miller was vilifies by the press, with death threats aplenty but, of course, he voted remain.
It seems the #mediascum were just doing their job at that point.

No hypocrisy from the Tory boys

What about...what about...what about...what about...



Yes, we could talk about all sorts of stuff, but dragging up Gina Miller 4 years later as some indication of hypocrisy is clutching at straws.

Any physical or death threats, racism, etc are out of line. However, I have no problem with "fck off Miller" or "Boris is a twt" something like that. They're only words and pretty much everybody will leave it at that.

And yes, my sympathies for Miller were limited (death threats and racism apart) - apart from the fact she lied repeatedly "this isn't about reversing Brexit honestly", she thought her views were more valid than 17m leave voters and that her opinion should overrule a democratic vote - and several other subsequent democratic votes that all leaned towards Brexit. And don't forget she was worshipped by the pro-EU media including most TV news programmes.

We have spent considerable time discussing this issue over several days. With this in mind and in view of the statement issued by Durham Police, I now consider the matter closed and will be adding no additional comment.

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The old "silence the critics" clause. Did someone mention dictatorship

If you're searching for this, look for "The Hollow Men" lecture. It is well worth watching. Cummings has some interesting ideas on government and I agree with some of his critique on the civil service and Ministers.

It is also quite amusing to watch his relationship with the Conservative party. Generally the whole route to advancement in Tory circles involves deference, sucking up, going out and defending the indefensible on behalf of someone else. Cummings doesn't bother with any of that, doesn't do any of the party events, he's not even a member, and he's got a job that everybody in CCHQ covets. He derides the Cabinet and he derides suck ups, and he will find it hilarious that they are all now making themselves look stupid to cover up for him. He doesn't give a poop about their reputations or if the Conservative party suffers lasting damage from stuff he does. He is focused on himself and his projects. At some point he'll leave No.10 and move in to a private sector project and he won't care if the Tories lose the next election. It's not his problem. A few Tory MPs seem to have realised this - he uses the Conservative party (and now the government) for his purposes and doesn't care what damage he causes, and really they should ditch him.

I was thinking about what would have happened if Corbyn had been PM and Seumus Milne had done this. You would have had some of the same issues. They have that 'solidarity' thing on the left. Corbyn would not have been bullied by the press into sacking Milne. Burgon, Gardiner would be making fools of themselves on TV making excuses for him.

The big difference would have been, that if Milne thought his ongoing presence would jeopardise the 'Corbyn project', he would have resigned. He could have stuck around in the background for a while, waited for the moment later on when Corbyn could bring him back in to a different role. In politics, sackings/resignations are rarely permanent, Cummings knows that, so do Priti Patel, Gavin Williamson etc. Milne would have gone because he'd have prized 'the project' above himself. Cummings only values himself, and he will have got his kicks out of 'getting one over' the media, and if that comes at political cost to Boris and his government, he won't lose sleep over it.

Quote ="Cronus"it's worth considering the impact a couple of hundred thousand would have in addition to normal net migration of about 230k a year.'" What about a couple of hundred million? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... itizenship

Quote ="Cronus"it's worth considering the impact a couple of hundred thousand would have in addition to normal net migration of about 230k a year.'" What about a couple of hundred million? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... itizenship

Quote ="King Street Cat"What about a couple of hundred million? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... itizenship'" Or perhaps three million? (read the article) It would probably be boring for me to repeat the same thing. What's your view on a possible 3,000,000 Hong Kongese moving to the UK?

Quote ="King Street Cat"What about a couple of hundred million? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... itizenship'" Or perhaps three million? (read the article) It would probably be boring for me to repeat the same thing. What's your view on a possible 3,000,000 Hong Kongese moving to the UK?

It will help the shortage of fruit pickers and also help shore up the value of peoples' property too?

I just went with your theory that 'not all of those would come'. You suggested a figure of 200k out of 300k. 2m out of 3m is the same ratio. Let 'em come. The tabloids can blame them if no deal doesn't work out.