The irony of the EU trying to use the threat of no deal to secure a better deal from us wouldn't be lost on me.

I do believe the EU want a deal - but they can't strike one based on the principles of the ERG. I mean it was never going to be a very good deal (Canada minus, once May had laid out her red lines), because membership has to remain attractive to the remaining members, but I don't think it'd have been punitive.

I see the trade agreement with Japan includes state aid rules stricter that those required by the EU's level playing field. I bet we still don't concede that point, even now it is completely moot. Can't ever give the EU anything, no matter how worthless!

We need to remember they don't care any more. Complain about state aid, concede more state aid to quickly get a Japan deal which will give them a couple of days headlines.
They're so far in with the identity politics of Brexit now that it's the fact of it that matters, not the consequences or the inconsistencies or the lies. They're committing huge damage to our economy and our international power just to own the libs. It's the most pathetic thing imaginable.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"I completely agree with your last paragraph. Perhaps the deal was signed in good faith but the EU out thought Boris - not difficult - and the EU knew all along what their bargaining position was going to be i.e. we will disrupt your trade if you don't do as we say. Let's face it the EU have a way of not accepting certain adverse decisions e.g. Eire and the Nice & Lisbon treaties. They have history - were they ever going to negotiate in good faith towards a deal? Boris knew this was going to happen longer term and believed it was no big deal - that I can believe'" On the issue of good faith, it is interesting that in a response to a report by the Northern Ireland Select Committee, published yesterday, Brandon Lewis/the Government says in relation to this situation: [iThese talks began in March and continued throughout the summer in a spirit of good faith...[/i and [iThe Government is extremely confident that the EU is working in good faith...[/i https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /78302.htm

Quote ="Sal Paradise"I completely agree with your last paragraph. Perhaps the deal was signed in good faith but the EU out thought Boris - not difficult - and the EU knew all along what their bargaining position was going to be i.e. we will disrupt your trade if you don't do as we say. Let's face it the EU have a way of not accepting certain adverse decisions e.g. Eire and the Nice & Lisbon treaties. They have history - were they ever going to negotiate in good faith towards a deal? Boris knew this was going to happen longer term and believed it was no big deal - that I can believe'" On the issue of good faith, it is interesting that in a response to a report by the Northern Ireland Select Committee, published yesterday, Brandon Lewis/the Government says in relation to this situation: [iThese talks began in March and continued throughout the summer in a spirit of good faith...[/i and [iThe Government is extremely confident that the EU is working in good faith...[/i https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /78302.htm

Can't argue with that - no deal was the only logical outcome of this - the EU has too much to lose from a smooth transition of the UK out of the EU.

So we swap being "told what to do" by the EU, for having to comply with WTO terms.
Frictionless trade, my



At least Johnson has been consistent since he cam back into the fray, consistent failings and misleading the masses, I think that telling lies is now called "mis speaking".
Are you happy that you backed the right horse in this particular race.

Get Brexit Done, Oven Ready Deal, Talking Absolute Nonsense.

Only the third one of these is true.

Back on topic, with over a 1/3rd of Uni's now having significant numbers isolating, do you think that "we" got the return to campus right ?

Interestingly, Universities are now talking about students returning to campus in "groups" as opposed to the mass return that is the norm.
Why on earth wasn't this done in September ?

regurgitating arguments, what's up, are the first IN EUROPE to have a viable vaccine?

sad lefties, maybe Kinnock will rent you his £1.6m flat?

What are you on about ?

read something other than toilet paper...

Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. — Oscar Wilde

You know this isn't some special British vaccine right, it's exactly the same as other countries will certify in due course (if it's safe). The UK government just short cut a few things to ok it here. Partly it seems so they can get stuff moving and on the road to us before our Channel ports become gridlocked in January due to some other crazy **** that's going on.

Still chin up old chap I'm sure your posts full of misinformed spite will become much more cheery come January 1st.

What short cuts have they used or are you just presuming? Maybe we have pulled our finger out for a change.

When you have a government that's incompetent and has a reputation for telling lies it's hardly surprising that some people are suspicious of the fast tracked approval.

Oh I see its a suspicion.... But the Ghost made it sound like it was a fact. Just checking. Bit strange as he's just accused another poster of misinformation.

You've stopped reading the Sun and the Mail, have you ?



Even you should be able to see that, had Universities chosen to bring their students back in (large) groups or, perhaps allow them to view lectures on line, instead of a 100% physical start/return to Uni, the number of Covid cases would have been significantly lower and as this is now being suggested for the return after Christmas, this point seems vindicated.
With regard to the vaccine, although the process will begin for the most "at risk" pre Christmas, it's likely to be mid year before "everyone" has been vaccinated and at the moment this may not include the under 20's.
Lets hope it goes well and that we can all get on with our lives, and finally get to see some live Rugby League.

I think its good if they create a bit of nationalism/patriotism over the vaccine, especially if it becomes seen as a national goal to get the vaccine rolled out and the population fully vaccinated to reach herd immunity before the Europeans/Americans/others do it.

It will be a line that speaks to a section of the population who would otherwise be susceptible to the conspiracy mindset - the vaccine is a plot by globalist elites funded by Bill Gates to microchip us as part of a way to take away our rights etc.

Should we mention that The Russians are ALREADY vaccinating their people, even before the UK !

tbf if I was in Russia I'd be paranoid about what was in my coffee never mind an injection in the arm.

Today they have announced mass testing at schools in Essex, Kent and London to try to improve their increasing COVID rate. I don’t remember this ever being suggested for Yorkshire, the North East or Manchester is it because they are not important enough to the government, so much for levelling up.
I notice that our numbers are falling close to the average and in some cases below, do you think they will reduce us to level 2. We all know the answer because I think many believe that you cannot allow those uncouth northerners to be allowed any freedoms because they would just waste it and what do they provide to the economy.

Are you suggesting that the data is being manipulated for political gain

Not so much manipulated but nudged to benefit those areas Boris wants to keep in or reduce to 2 in order the keep businesses open and appease many in his party. The levelling up agenda going well, I presume his idea of the North is Watford.

Why would he favour London for political gain? The tories have more seats in the North.

Yes but they consider London to be the centre of wealth earning in the U.K. and they need it open for this reason. This is why it was reported that Boris overruled the evidence which indicated it should be in level 3.

So he's doing what he thinks is best for the whole country. Yes?

FX: Tugs forelock.