You know like everyone else these are temporary measures in an extreme situation.

How do you think the talks are going, Sa and what happens to the Irish Border in a "no deal" scenario.
One of the major issues right at the outset, 4 years later, oven ready deal and not a step closer to a sensible resolution.

Assuming that there isn't a comprehensive FTA sorted and it looks less likely at the moment, just what do you think will happen with cross border trade ?

The talks are going as well as you would expect - probably not as you expected? You probably thought that we would roll over and agree to anything to get a free trade deal - I suspect so did the EU.

State aid - get real - nobody worse than the Germans for state intervention e.g. Lufthansa!! I don't know how they have the cheek to demand as an independent state we cow down to them.

On Ireland its simple - just ensure any product that goes into the EU meets their standards and the local standards authority deal with an breaches as is the case with product that comes here from outside of the EU - we seem to want to make things more difficult than they need to be.

On fishing - I would concede as part of the deal and move on

I dont/didn't want us to roll over at all.
Having been told so damn often just how easy it would be to get a free trade agreement with the EU and that the issues surrounding the Irish Border would be solved, it seemed reasonable to expect that this would indeed be the outcome.

Sadly, it just doesn't look to be the case (although to some of us, it never did).

Right from the outset we (the voting public) were sold a pup and in 3 years plus since the referendum NOTHING has changed.
If I was part of the EU side, who have way more to gain from this than the UK, I would sit tight.

Let's face it, they have lost the UK's contributions and their economy dwarfs that of the UK
Just think how you may feel when/if Scotland goes it alone, you certainly wouldn't want / expect England to concede too much ground in the negotiations and the current situation is similar.

Those on the right of the Tory party have done a fantastic job

The "frictionless trade" promised so often is just another myth.
The likelihood of tariffs and additional cost for importing from the EU is certainly real, even in my own business there are costs already racking up, trying to prepare for what may come and to not know what we need in just 12/14 weeks time is bloody scandalous.
But, what the hell, it's only money.

I see the Government have decided their own withdrawal agreement is rubbish.

I wonder what they’ll do when they work out that breaking international law is a rubbish solution.

It may be stupid, but at least it is our own British stupidity... I suppose. Yay.

Whatever happens it’s Boris and his government’s stupidity but sadly it is all of us that will have to pay.

All they have done is react to the EU threatening to ban all UK exports of food to Northern Ireland - that is the culture of the EU - if they don't get their own way they want to play stupid games - Frost is way to tough for Barnier. Let's just draw a line a line under it and move on accept the talks are going nowhere and get on preparing for WTO terms in January.

For all of our sakes, we'd be better off agreeing to disagree and at least having 14 weeks to set things up to run with WTO terms, apart from 14 week just isn't long enough to have everything in place.
It's certainly going to get interesting and not necessarily in a good way.

As for Barnier and Frost, you are kidding - right ?
Frost looked like the new kid at school, following one of the "bigger boys" round.so that he didn't get lost.

Looking forward to those multi mile long lines of lorries queuing through the Kent countryside and sheep farmers going out of business because there isn't any WTO quota available for them under the rules we've decided to adopt.

I think some of these Brexit jokers think WTO is actually some sort of free trade basis, but then research and facts aren't their fortes.

But what tariffs are they proposing to apply? Zero tariffs and a free trade Nirvana? Remember what we apply to the EU we have we apply to the rest of the world, China included, so zero tariffs would flood the UK with imports and destroy domestic sectors.
"Punish" the EU for not folding to your ridiculous demands? Again you'd need to apply those to almost everyone so either shortages or inflation would be the enemy there.
Still I'm sure it's all been carefully thought through.

I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

Whatever we choose, there are consequences to deal with - and Johnson is apparently unwilling to do that. Tbf, his lies are catching up with him, so I can understand his reluctance. And if he tried, one or more of the of the groups that put their trust in him will be (metaphorically) out for his blood. He's running out of time and lies to tell very rapidly now.

It's laughable really. We were told what a strong position we'd be in in these negotiations. How on earth does that square with the EU being able to "bully" us in the first place?

The reality is the EU set out their red lines very clearly, very early on. And, as they stick to them, and as we find that there is no cake and eat it solution to keeping the vast benefits of EU membership, the people who've been lying for the past 5 years are finding that everything they portrayed as Project Fear is gradually coming true. Now they're starting to throw their toys out of the pram because those nasty Europeans won't let us keep the all the things they've suddenly realised we actually need after all.

Utterly lacking in self awareness, utterly refusing to take any responsibility for the mess they've made and the damage they've done to our country.

Do we not trade with the likes of China on WTO terms? Who has said anything about zero tariffs?

Nobody is saying punish the EU - surely the view was trade talks would undertaken in the spirit of finding a workable solution - can you genuinely say the EU has tried to be constructive? Your view is we just concede everything to get a free trade deal i.e. in the EU - fortunately that ship has sailed.

So why are the EU looking to replace Barnier if he is doing such a great job!!

Am I right in saying there was a big stink about the MP's who wanted time to ratify the agreement, and they were told to just vote for it and get on with it?
Or was that a different agreement that was rushed through?

Yes we do. So we just apply the same tariffs as we do on Chinese imports to European ones. Simple! Until you realise what that actually means!


Yes, anyone who isn't fed by a drip of right wing propaganda knows they have. There are a bunch on off the shelf solutions, Norway, Switzerland, even Canada etc, so we've seen what sort of things we can achieve given what the EU countries will accept. They've actually offered movement in quite a few areas that would be better than these.

But the British continue to demand things which simply can't be offered. That's not a failing to be constructive, it's just fact as to what the community's red lines are and what will be vetoed by any particular country. And the interests of the Republic of Ireland are given an outsize importance given how things will impact them.

But yes, obviously they hold the whip hand in these negotiations so any deal we get isn't exactly going to be particularly favourable given the relative power dynamics. Like us they are looking after their own interests first. But this has been made clear all along and shouldn't come as some surprise to you.