One of the big differences between the codes is the way the people involved think of themselves, if that makes sense.

Union seems to be far more confident in itself, whereas in League it is truly shocking how many people want to talk the game down

The fans, media and even administrators all do it



Union people understand the need to project a positive image, lots of League people act like the game is going to hell in a handcart



On this thread and a couple of others recently people have been going on about various Union players being far superior to anything on show in League, thats just another example of the doom and gloom that seems to engulf our sport

It never has been. As you said, it's just that a lot of people in the "media" who are associated with RU, happen to give off that impression (or more accurately like to think they do). Around Northampton or Bristol RU is very much a "working class" (if you subscribe to that terminology) game.

Their (ru) tackling used to be laughable but now proably due to ex league players their techniques at international level are now proabably as good as rl.
What is amazing is how the drop goal still worth 3 points is not used very often

Got to agree with that. There is almost an apologetic attitude when it comes to talking up the game of RL from certain adminstrators. The M62 corridor is often used when discussing RL and the game seems to have accepted this and it often comes across as a negative.

As a League fan living in Shropshire, whenever i talk to friends or family about Rugby, the six nations is always mentioned. No matter how often i've tried to explain that there are two forms of Rugby, i always get a shrug of the shouders and a shake of the head, followed by i don't understand rugby anyway.

The game itself or the image has struggled since the last World Cup in 2000. Since then the administration side of the game has been very coy about expanding the game outside the heartlands and appears to like to keep alot of what happens "in house". Even the SuperLeague show has only just been launched nationally, albeit in the early hours! Having said that, any matches played on a Sunday will never get coverage due to the programme being recorded Sunday morning/lunchtime. Compare this to the coverage that the Guinness Premiership gets on ITV4, it's head and shoulders above Boots n All and the SL Show.

If you compare the Sky TV coverage between the two sports, th RU shows always come across as far more proffessional, has more in depth analysis and the commentators are enthiastic about everything in the game. Eddie and Stevo however, rant and rave on about their own thoughts and theories without actually commentating on what's going on on the pitch most of the time, often picking up on the bad points or errors.

With the French Super 14 having no salary cap and having the ability to seemingly throw money at any English RU player wanting to make the move, this could spell danger for RL, as RU clubs could well come a knocking for young RL talent. Their salary cap is already in excess of RL anyway!

When I was well past my league playing days I was asked by several (not high level) union clubs to do tackling training sessions;as I keep banging on about, they were open minded, willing to learn, and I really never encountered any snobbery (this was the early 90's).

i am a season ticket holder at salford but my lad plays ru at under 1s level and in training sessions we teach them all aspects of rugby league to incoparate into ru.bu you have to remember in ru if you have the ball the opposition cant score.with regards to the drop goal not being used i think proffesional teams are urged to score trys unless losing with a couple of points with a few minutes to go.both codes can learn off each imo.

Start 'em young.

under 13s i am a fool

I fear for RL to a certain extent.

RU has the POTENTIAL to be a better sport. The players are not up to league standard in terms of fitness, but they're getting fitter all the time. Tweak the rules a little, and you have a sport that resembles 'old' rugby league, which to my mind was far more interesting to watch than the British Bulldog-eque game we have today.

All you have to do is look at RU in the Southern Hemisphere. The ruck has quickened up so much that in many cases it's like the play-the-ball anyway with rarely more than 2 or 3 forwards piling in. The rules have been tweaked so as to encourage more attacking play, which has had the desired result, as more tries are now scored. They are even toying with the idea of making the defence stand five metres back from the gain line, whereas at the moment, they are allowed to stand on it. Clearly, this will encourage deep-set attacking play, just like League used to do.

Then all you have to do is look at Shaun Edwards' side, Wasps. OK, they've been less than successful this year due to many personnel changes, but also due to the fact that clubs have cottonned onto his style. He pioneered the 'move forward in a line' (rush) defence technique already common in League. All the other sides have copied it. Union never used to use dummy runners, but they do now.

I used to hate union in the amateur days. We all know what it was like. The ball used to be in the stands more than it was on the pitch. League people still call union for that - well, all I can say is that they've not watched a game of it for a few years. And if that's the case, that makes us no better than the general UK public, encouraged by the union faithful, who like to portray RL as a beer swilling, northern, mudbath.

RL needs to get its finger out. We may have the superior game, but for how long?

Correct, and my above post will no doubt lead you to believe that i think the same thing.

The thing is, I KNOW, as do a lot of people that RL is the superior game. It has to be - it's faster, easier to understand than union and the players are fitter.

We're the betamax of sport though. We have the better product, but we're being f*cked over by union's ability to market itself better. They have the media on their side, but do you really, honestly think that this is some kind of accident? Course it isn't! Union make a conscious effort to market themselves. We don't.

What gets me though, is that it isn't hard. We have a start - I speak to a lot of people from all over the country because of my job. They all know I'm based in Wigan, and therefore the conversation always turns to RL. When I tell them my wife is from St Helens, everyone, and I do mean everyone sucks their teeth and ask me how I put up with her, or if they're feeling particularly humorous, how she puts up with me! Trust me, THEY ALL KNOW about RL and they all know about the Wigan V Saints rivalry. This is a great start.

Secondly, a lot of these people I speak to tell me just how GREAT rugby league is. They don't see it much because they never think to seek it out, but when its on TV and they happen to catch it, they watch it and thoroughly enjoy it. Most say it's much better than union. Off the top of my head I can think of one Essex based bloke who said "I love Rugby League" and a pair of St Johns Wood based Jewish business partners that I deal with who said "League is MUCH better to watch". How proud did that make me feel, and I'm just a supporter!

So, we have all these people who claim to think RL is great. We have a start. All these people will read about RL if it is printed and will watch it if it's on the box. Why don't the RFL compel ALL super league clubs to release one press statement per day. The RFL should also release at least two per day. This is exactly what other sports do - the journalists in the nationals don't look for the stories; they're lazy. They rely on stuff being sent to them.

I could go on. I have loads of ideas for the RFL to market themselves that won't cost loads of money, because lets not kid ourselves, the RFL is not exactly flush with cash, are they?

RL has so much potential, but I really fear that if something is not done, and we allow RU to catch up with us, then we're going to find it harder and harder to get noticed.

I agree Robinson.

Sadly I too fear for the game, and one of the reasons, perhaps predictably is our old friend the Communist Cap.

RU is currently "suffering" from losing players to the French league (where there is no CC in force).

How long before they say "enough" and scrap their cap? More immediately is the likelihood of them turning to RL to fill their vacancies.

RL on the other hand is happier cowering to the likes of Cas and Wakey and dumbing down to their levels.

Still with a chairman like ours who appears to be as tight as a fishes tight bits, then it looks like Wigan RL have no ambition in the "signing stars" department in any case.

If the cap was scrapped we would probably fill our squad with St Pats players.........

I wouldnt blame the cap as such, I mean several clubs were very nearly bankrupted, including ours.

In fact I would say that at the moment, a cap is necessary to stop things spiralling out of control.

That's not to say that I actually agree with the cap though. I would love it to be scrapped, but you can only do that if there is enough money in the sport, and you won't get that without sponsorship. you won't get sponsorship without promotion. And without promotion, you won't get fans, which means no sponsorship.

The buck has to stop with the RFL. They need to COMPEL the clubs, IMMEDIATELY to promote themselves by basically, bombarding the media with news. The RFL need to back the clubs by doing the same.

Then, and only then, will be we able to grow our sport to the potential we know it has.

I agree there has to be some kind of regulation.

However, a simple Turnover cap (based on the PRECEEDING seasons Turnover) would help to ensure the survival of clubs. Frankly you can never 100% ensure their survival, but that's a seperate debate.

i am going to upset the apple cart here the problem with regards to 2 games is when you see internationals they are sell outs,because they try and bring through youngsters and no just go for a quick fix ie overrated aussies and kiwis.i am a lover of both games because i am a season ticket holder at salford and my lad plays for orrell rufc.with regards to ru being behind i think you need take a look again they are miles in front with regards to everything media ie

that idea is far too straght forward for the RFL,

Some very interesting points throughout.

But what are our thoughts on improving RL?

-Marketing?
-The on field game?
-Salary Cap?
-Development of youth players?
-Development in other parts of the UK?
-Overseas development?

Discuss!

The RFL have at least put some foundations in place to help the game move forward, the main one being the franchises.

This will help develop youth players & eventually allow us to move outside the M62 corridor with a stronger player pool so new teams can have a credible line-up without being bashed for packing their sides with antipodeans but we need to lose our parochialism.

I think a lot of the flat-earthed philosophies come from the fact that people who follow Rugby League either feel that their team or other teams that have been around for many years and previously been successful are now being put to the sword for the sake of expansion and fail to grasp the bigger picture. I do emphathise with anybody who takes that position & I think the RFL need to avoid causing a schism within the game if it continues to expand.

Why spurn potential feeder clubs in the heartlands because they are not desirable? More money should be invested in the National Leagues to allow them to make improvements and bring through more youngsters and ease the pressure on the SL. This will improve the playing pool and potentially offer more quality talent for SL and International RL which in turn leads to a more competitive competition which can be marketed easier and attract a larger audience.

Another incentive is the larger the player pool the less problematic talent leaving the game becomes for RU as there will be adequate numbers to fill those lost positions - but I agree that the Salary Cap needs a massive overhaul for our game to progress in the near future.

Just as an aside, why does Union still operate a Salary Cap in this country if it has enough talent and money to be competitive and financially sound...or am I wrong in that assumption?

Trying not to be negative, most of the development/improvement ideas have actually been tried, but in a half hearted way.

RL doesn't have a lot of money so it's difficult to expand without a long term slow burning plan.

I am also perturbed by RL in London. 28 years and spectator figures have plateaued for years. It's positive there are locals in the Quins squad but that's about it. The profile down here is nil. Like Robinson I meet lots of people who, when they hear I am from Wigan, start talking RL. Some have even heard of Stains! None have heard of Quins RL. There are lots of ex-pat northerners and Aussies here who don't go to watch RL in the capital, and I'm not sure why. I may be guilty of thread drift here but the condition of RL in London is an example of where RL fails.

London have been lucky to survive as they have done for me because they came about when the RFL knew nothing about expansion (Paris anybody?)

It's profile however has been hampered by the fact it has never established itself as one entity for very long. Fulham had about three years at Craven Cottage before turning into the nomads of RL for the next ten years.

Add to that name chages and further ground changes (The Valley, The Stoop, Griffin Park) just added to the problems. Harlequins RL will be unknown for the time being because everybody knows Harlequins as being the RU side - but hopefully a period of stability at the Twickenham Stoop for this side can allow them to find a fanbase that don't need to move around like Alan Whicker to follow them -- London has already done a lot to bring youngsters into the game so it is popular.

interesting to see the governement throw its support behind the rfu's bid to host the union world cup in england in 2015.
not been so forthcoming in their support for the 2013 rugby league bid.
shame we haven't got anyone on the inside! where's andy burnham when you need him? ...oh wait



[urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyunion/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rugby/09/02/18/RUGBYU_RFU_Nightlead.html[/url

-Marketing?
As mentioned in my previous posts about compelling clubs to make one press release a day.

I also don't see why the RFL must go after cash for sponsorship. Why can't they do 'deals in kind' so to speak. In other words, we will welcome Cadbury on board as sponsor of a competition, if they promote said competition on their chocolate wrappers.

The same could be applied to many, many products. Also, give tickets to celebrities for cup finals Harlequins and Celtic games. I'm sure the press would pick up on, say, Charlotte Church cheering on Celtic, wearing their colours.

-The on field game?
Slow it down a bit so it's less about 'run and collide'. Go back to 5 metre defences to encourage creativity and deep attack.

Competitive scrums - no pushing as this causes too many penalties, but the scrumhalf should be compelled to put the ball in straight, and the hookers should actually 'hook'

Allow striking at the play the ball. HAVING possession, shouldnt ENTITLE you to it

Five min sin bin for minor offences, 10 min sin bin for major ones, no sending off.

-Salary Cap?
There should be one, with a view to getting it abolished by 2020. Players under 20 should not count on the cap. Aussies count double. Aussies over 27 count treble. Concessions should be made to players brought through by the club and for loyalty to that club.

-Development of youth players?
Not an area I know a great deal about. As a spectator, though, I'd like to see a return to the old days of skill, creativity and a 'defining point' in the individual's game being nurtured and encouraged, rather than coached out in favour of a set formula.

-Development in other parts of the UK?
Is essential. Eventually, I'd like to see a team based in Cardiff or Swansea. The welsh love their rugby of either code, and I'd love to see a big massive rivalry down there. I'd say the same about London, but that will take longer to nurture - certainly as long as it takes for the kids playing the sport to become adults.

-Overseas development?
Long term. Lets get our core nations competitive first, and our sport in the general public eye first.

Good point, I have heard numerous interviews with Andy Burnham on 5live and he has not mentioned RL once

this is the same guy that before he got into the cabinet was shouting rugby league's praises from the rroftops... it's all gone quiet andy!

Andy Burnham's from Leigh. What would he know about rugby league?

still he should know more about league than union... just a bit more