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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Maybe not yet, but likely to be soon. Needing £500k to continue - where's that coming from?'" Time to make the HARD decisions that should have been made years ago. It's never nice being made redundant or making people redundant, but the alternative is the demise of one of the RFL's and the Sports flagship clubs.
I would have use a different word to flagship, but if I'd said Ico**c I'd have been lambasted for kicking them while they were down....
Have faith fans of Bradford and to a man woman and child, drag everyone you know to the game at the weekend and show prospective investors the potential that exists!
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| Quote ="gutterfax".........Have faith fans of Bradford and to a man woman and child, drag everyone you know to the game at the weekend and show prospective investors the potential that exists!'"
How can the game at the weekend go ahead?
OKBulls is in administration.
Newco had a temporary 28 day licence to be in Superleague dependent upon their doing the deal with the administrator. They have now publically stated that they are not going ahead.
Who now employs the players?
Who has the responsibility for ground safety, player insurance etc etc?
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| The best thing for them to do now is liquidation. Dissolve the club, reform and apply to go into Championship 1 next year. With the crowds they will get, hopefully 2-3k, they should be in Championship in a couple of years, they can then build the club back up on solid foundations and earn promotion back into Super League. If they get propped up until the end of the season the problems will still exist and the entire cycle will continue to repeat itself. It is perhaps several years of pain, but its the only way to sort the long term future of the the club.
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| It's simple.
The players are now with OK Bulls again.
OK Bulls Administrator makes all players on over £30k redundant (unless they accept a reduction to £30k).
Mr Lamb buys Bradford Bulls from the Administrator for an amount that covers his fees.
Mr Lamb then has a Super League club, with affordable players and no debts.
Once special measures lifted, no more contracts offered of more than £30k.
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| Quote ="Nat (Rugby_Aholic)"The best thing for them to do now is liquidation. Dissolve the club, reform and apply to go into Championship 1 next year. With the crowds they will get, hopefully 2-3k, they should be in Championship in a couple of years, they can then build the club back up on solid foundations and earn promotion back into Super League. If they get propped up until the end of the season the problems will still exist and the entire cycle will continue to repeat itself. It is perhaps several years of pain, but its the only way to sort the long term future of the the club.'"
Agreed. We shouldn't be bailing clubs out in the first place. There's this fear that if we don't bail a club out then disaster awaits for the sport. I don't believe that for one moment. If a club folds it doesn't mean that city loses RL forever. More to the point, bailouts have a habit of failing in any event. And then there's the moral hazard. Let them fail. If the people of the city of Bradford care enough about Rugby League, a new Bradford will arrive. If not, then another town deserves the chance.
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| Quote ="DemonUK"Except all this started before any P&R was discussed and decided upon. You really talk complete bo77ocks.'"
What more proof would it take than a prospective owner specifically and clearly stating P+R and the prospect of relegation being a major factor in them pulling out for you to accept it?
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| Is the former newco now the oldco? Or is the current newco the oldco? Can a newco become an oldco and vice versa? And which entity is in administration? The newco? Or the oldco? And who has spat the dummy again and walked away? The newco? The oldco? Or the neverco?
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| Quote ="Cassandra"
I seem to recall Back when SL started, that all the clubs in SL had an 8% in Hull FC.'"
Hull weren't in SL when it started?
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| Quote ="mapleyther"I am sure the Bradford players have been heartened by the faith shown in them by the erstwhile "new owners", that was only limited by their failure to believe they could overcome a 6 point deficit, which is in effect 4 as London are dead and buried already!
Is this just a convenient excuse for the new owners to get out?
And where is RHP in all this?'"
The players, certainly Diskin haven't been particularly complimentary about it, they seem firmly on the boards side.
Only hope is Nigel's taken another plane journey and had the tap on the shoulder that there is another Koucash in the wings. Otherwise the game has dug itself a very big hole
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| Even now with all this going on Bradford still have more of a chance of being in SL at the start of next season than Fev, Fax, Leigh, Sheffield or any other championship club!
I don't think the truth of what has happened from start to finish will ever come out especially now it's turned into an argument between the Bulls and the RFL!
Like Nat says they should bite the bullet and drop down ready to rebuild from the bottom up. The Bulls fans won't like to hear it but this should and most likely will happen.
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| Quote ="Wooden Stand"It's simple.
The players are now with OK Bulls again.
OK Bulls Administrator makes all players on over £30k redundant (unless they accept a reduction to £30k).
Mr Lamb buys Bradford Bulls from the Administrator for an amount that covers his fees.
Mr Lamb then has a Super League club, with affordable players and no debts.
Once special measures lifted, no more contracts offered of more than £30k.'" who is paying the players redundancy? Can you tupe a player to a company in liquidation? Who says Mr Lamb has 750k to pay the players if there is no money coming in? Who can even say if he will want to? Wo would say anyone would pay to see a team get 70/80points put on them?
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| Quote ="SIMMSFAXTEDDY"Even now with all this going on Bradford still have more of a chance of being in SL at the start of next season than Fev, Fax, Leigh, Sheffield or any other championship club!
I don't think the truth of what has happened from start to finish will ever come out especially now it's turned into an argument between the Bulls and the RFL!
Like Nat says they should bite the bullet and drop down ready to rebuild from the bottom up. The Bulls fans won't like to hear it but this should and most likely will happen.'"
We shouldn't think that will be so easy, as rangers are proving its very difficult to subsidise a team playing far below its level. If Ranger stutter again, the spfl is absolutely screwed
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The players, certainly Diskin haven't been particularly complimentary about it, they seem firmly on the boards side.
Only hope is Nigel's taken another plane journey and had the tap on the shoulder that there is another Koucash in the wings. Otherwise the game has dug itself a very big hole'"
Diskin is hardly an independent voice. He's not going to call the prospective owners a basket case.
The game did not dig this hole. The hole has been dug by a catalogue of owners and prospective owners, the game being fans, clubs and the RFL have tried to help the Bulls, I'm sure had the game bent over and changed the rules for the Bradford team we would be looking at War between the clubs.
Changing the rules for one team would be undoubted bias.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Quote ="Cassandra"
I seem to recall Back when SL started, that all the clubs in SL had an 8% in Hull FC.'"
Hull weren't in SL when it started?'" They were shares in Gateshead, representing £250k's worth of investment when that club was formed. Gateshead, of course, became Hull and therefore SLE (who held the shares) ended up with a stake in Hull instead. They were "realised at an amount less than cost" in 2004 (according to the Leeds accounts where they appeared due to Leeds holding a 1/12 of the investment).
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| Quote ="Bull Mania"Regarding te £500k in the RFL statement, they said MM & co asked for £500k keep trading.
I asked the point earlier, would MM & CO be able to do this as the club was with the administrators at the time.
Also if they did ask for this on the 7th Feb then why the hell did the RFL ratify the takeover???
I think the £500k is basically MM asking for the other half of the SKY money.'"
Had Moore and co actually taken control of the club or were they "in effect" just office staff running the club in the hope that they would be taking over at some point?
The administrator seems to still be having a big say in whats going on
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The players, certainly Diskin haven't been particularly complimentary about it, they seem firmly on the boards side.
Only hope is Nigel's taken another plane journey and had the tap on the shoulder that there is another Koucash in the wings. Otherwise the game has dug itself a very big hole'"
Actually Bradford have dug themselves a very deep hole with a spade provided by the RFL, who should have kept well clear once their initial loan was swallowed by the Club's financial black hole. Since the start of this mess Bradford have had ample opportunity to try resolve things by 'cutting their cloth' but have merely bumbled along believing the hype of their 'iconicity'.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"Diskin is hardly an independent voice. He's not going to call the prospective owners a basket case.
The game did not dig this hole. The hole has been dug by a catalogue of owners and prospective owners, the game being fans, clubs and the RFL have tried to help the Bulls, I'm sure had the game bent over and changed the rules for the Bradford team we would be looking at War between the clubs.
Changing the rules for one team would be undoubted bias.'" his comment was about the players attitude, I'm not sure an independant voice is better than his in this instance.
The game has dug itself a hole, it put in place the rules it made its decisions.
It is the RFL who passed a club, having spent weeks working with it, as fit and proper to start a season, two weeks in that same RFL declares the club to be undercapitalised and that it has no faith in the submitted business plans.
One of two things have happened here, either the RFL have put off a prospective owner who could have put Bradford back on track,
Or
They have allowed a club which they had no faith in, which had no money, which they knew needed more money to continue to operate to start a season the RFL weren't convinced they would finish.
If the RFL's statement is a clear and accurate representation of their view point and the facts of the matter, it is inconceivable that they have been allowed to start the season.
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| Quote ="MjM"They were shares in Gateshead, representing £250k's worth of investment when that club was formed. Gateshead, of course, became Hull and therefore SLE (who held the shares) ended up with a stake in Hull instead. They were "realised at an amount less than cost" in 2004 (according to the Leeds accounts where they appeared due to Leeds holding a 1/12 of the investment).'"
About as comprehensive evidence of what an awful idea it would be as you could hope for
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| the fact that if Bradford were playing in Champ 1 they'd get more on the gate than Fev in SL should highlight to every numpty wanting Fev in SL why it's a totally moronic idea.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"who is paying the players redundancy? '"
Nobody. They are being made redundant and if the company has no funds with which to pay them, they won't get paid. Life sucks sometimes.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Can you tupe a player to a company in liquidation? '" Probably not, but then they were TUPE'd to help facilitate an earlier attempt to paper of the cracks.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Who says Mr Lamb has 750k to pay the players if there is no money coming in? '" I very much doubt he has that much cash lying around.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Who can even say if he will want to? '" It seems everyone wants Bradford for nothing, with no points deduction and could the RFL please hurry up with the Sky cash?....
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Wo would say anyone would pay to see a team get 70/80points put on them?'"
Ask the fans at Clubs who have made the hard choices. London will get buried under a mountain of points this year and Wakefield won't be far ahead of us, but at least we've accepted the fact that living beyond your means can't continue indefinitely.
As for the competition as a whole? If Bradford do go into liquidation, then the clubs they have played up to that point have their results taken away (not everyone can be placated here), we have 26 rounds and Magic weekend is a 9's tournament.
I still say Bradford can see out this season, but they need to shed everything they don't need now and if that means players taking a wage cut or being shown the door, then so be it. As for the back office employees of the club....it sucks, but life isn't always fair.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Actually Bradford have dug themselves a very deep hole with a spade provided by the RFL, who should have kept well clear once their initial loan was swallowed by the Club's financial black hole. Since the start of this mess Bradford have had ample opportunity to try resolve things by 'cutting their cloth' but have merely bumbled along believing the hype of their 'iconicity'.'"
And how would you define "cutting their cloth"?
Would it involve losing players so that they now have the smallest squad in the league?
Or perhaps cutting back on the number of staff?
Both of those things HAVE been done by Bradford, I fail to see where else those scissors can be applied.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Nobody. They are being made redundant and if the company has no funds with which to pay them, they won't get paid. Life sucks sometimes.
Probably not, but then they were TUPE'd to help facilitate an earlier attempt to paper of the cracks.
I very much doubt he has that much cash lying around.
It seems everyone wants Bradford for nothing, with no points deduction and could the RFL please hurry up with the Sky cash?....
Ask the fans at Clubs who have made the hard choices. London will get buried under a mountain of points this year and Wakefield won't be far ahead of us, but at least we've accepted the fact that living beyond your means can't continue indefinitely.
As for the competition as a whole? If Bradford do go into liquidation, then the clubs they have played up to that point have their results taken away (not everyone can be placated here), we have 26 rounds and Magic weekend is a 9's tournament.
I still say Bradford can see out this season, but they need to shed everything they don't need now and if that means players taking a wage cut or being shown the door, then so be it. As for the back office employees of the club....it sucks, but life isn't always fair.'"
And players are just going to accept that are they? That they won't be paid? Other players are going to sign for the new co for a massive wage cut and no guarantee that they will even be paid that?
And then we accept one club gets a loss wiped from its record and one club gets a win wiped off?
Tell me, if Wakefield stay up in place of say Widnes, do they just accept this change when they have a good case that the competition rules weren't followed?
Are Sky going to accept a round of the competition being lost? The change of the magic weekend to a 9's?
When Bradford get rid of the back room staff who is going to do the jobs they were doing? Who selling the tickets, cleaning up, doing the admin, HR, etc etc
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| 'Bradford need to cut their coat according their cloth, so they can achieve financial stability in the long run'
'We need P&R back so teams that don't have such good teams don't compete in SL'
Do any of the snipers see the problem?
Cut coat, get relegated, lose sky money = screwed
Pay players to stay up, go into admin = screwed
A Bradford on handouts is better for SL than the nowhere clubs like Leigh & Featherstone that will never, ever be competitive. Where do you imagine Fev are going to get the money to pay full time salaries on gates of 2.5k?
I'm sure it will only benefit the credibility of our game to see a village team get walloped by 60 points or more week in, week out.
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| The rfl deserve praise for acting with the utmost integrity and professionalism.
Too long, have the bulls shirked their financial responsbilities.
Too long, have they spent beyond their means on the field whilst other clubs have cut their cloth.
Too long.
It would have been easy for the RFL to bottle it on the ''iconic status'' get out clause. But they retained the integrity of the competition.
Bravo!
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"And players are just going to accept that are they? That they won't be paid? Other players are going to sign for the new co for a massive wage cut and no guarantee that they will even be paid that? '"
This is the real world. Companies go bust and people don't get paid. If players want to play, be seen in the shop window and have a chance of being picked up next season, they will take the cut...if they don't, then they can find a job elsewhere. Bradford do not have the money to pay them.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"And then we accept one club gets a loss wiped from its record and one club gets a win wiped off? '"
A Small inconvenience to create symmetry and rescue the season. Castleford can whine, Wakefield can cheer....nothing changes in real terms!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Tell me, if Wakefield stay up in place of say Widnes, do they just accept this change when they have a good case that the competition rules weren't followed? '"
The Adjustment would have to be agreed by the remaining SL chairmen. No doubt, Knock down Nigel will find another 100k to sweeten the deal (Bradfords much debated TV cash)
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Are Sky going to accept a round of the competition being lost? The change of the magic weekend to a 9's?'"
I'd suggest that SKY will probably want something in return for losing the rights to broadcast 7 games over 2 days at Magic....maybe the rights to broadcast a 9's comp? The loss of a round won't bother them.....the RFL will juggle some fixtures and the lost weekend will get it's 2 games.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"When Bradford get rid of the back room staff who is going to do the jobs they were doing? Who selling the tickets, cleaning up, doing the admin, HR, etc etc'"
Part time staff. There may well be some who are willing to volunteer to help out....seems to have been well received across the way at Wakefield. If these "FANS" want their club, then it's time to roll up their sleeves and stop bitching about conspiracy theories and injustices.
I've suggested a way Bradford could survive this year....you can carry in whining if you want!
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