In bagging individual players, yesterday was a team effort, defending is an attiude and we have the wrong attitude at the moment, Finches effort for example, good stand off play as he made sia look at the runners, but if sia goes "which he did" the inside defender must go with him which would have covered Finch. Finch shouls never be one on one with any player in the middle of the park "Ever". For me this stops with the coaches, wheeler isnt a centre, Hohaia isnt a stand off, Lomax is taking a lot of clog, maybe drop him back to fullback, Wellens can play anywhere, 13 or 4, Lance in at 7 Gaskell at 6, Gaskell is a natural 6 and always looks like he has time and also has a good kicking game.

I agree on Gaskell. But I don't think the problem you highlight with playing players out of positions will be solved by playing more players out of position.

To improve Saints need to:

1 - Be better prepared mentally. We were beaten from the kick off by Wigan. They were more aggressive and had more desire to win than we did. Motivation is a massive part of top level sport and it's something we're lacking in. There is no spirit in the team now Graham has left. I find the choice of Wellens as captain hard to take given how he behaves and I'm surprised the likes of Cunningham and Rush continually fail to properly motivate them for a derby game.

2 - Be better coached. This won't happen until Brown arrives. Wigan showed what we need to become if we're to be successful again. Fast line speed in defense, numbers in the tackle, aggression and fight as the tackle is completed. The first thing I'd have them doing this week is attacking the standing leg on the held call. Wigan have done this since Maguire came over and it gives them an extra 5-6 seconds per play the ball. Our line speed is slow and uneven, with our middle often waiting for them to come at us, which makes the short balls and steps deadly. In attack we need to copy their set moves and the number of bodies they have in motion. Our attack is lazy, unplanned and there are very few runners, which makes us very predictable.

3 - Pick the halves Brown wants at play them now. He doesn't seem to rate Hohaia and has questioned his selection in the halves on Sky this year, so move him to a more appropriate position now. Like 9 from the bench. If Gaskell is leaving and another 6 being brought in, as is rumoured, then why not play Swift or another junior to give them experience? Even Wheeler as he's proven now that he can't play centre.

4 - Pick the fullback Brown wants and play them now. Some of you are still in denial about this, but Wellens is finished. He no longer contributes anything in attack or defense and is a very poor choice as captain. Brown cannot seriously see him as the fullback for next season, as he seems to acknowledge the role and importance of the fullback in the modern game. His comments about Eden's attributes would lead me to think he wouldn't stick with Wellens. But there is no evidence the club sees it that way and there are rumours he's been offered a 1 or 2 year deal to stay. We've all mentioned Makinson or Lomax as possibilities for the role, but neither are given any time there so it's questionable whether the club can see beyond Wellens.

Well said!!!

In the end though the current coaches are not going to mess up the players by doing things to fix the problems as why would they. There job is to be caretakers. They don't want to get sacked for upsetting the players and makin choices that the next guy will then reverse or change again.

They are the current coaches, why would they be sacked for dropping players who aren't performing?

That sounds like an excuse for the fact that they are too close to certain players and don't want to drop them. It's often an issue with ex players that are taken on as managers soon after retirement with their last team, maybe Rush is a little star struck?

Well, Simmons got sacked and based upon at least one whingy senior player (Perry) one of the reasons may well have been that he dropped players who weren't performing (Perry moaned in an article in the trade press that Simmons dropped him).

I can't see that happening to Rush anyway, no matter what happens from now until the end of the season.

That's your perception of it, but nothing has really come out about his sacking with Simmons himself taking a dignified silence as far as I know. The club appeared to be in turmoil and the team was all over the place, had the only reason been a few disgruntled players then all he had to do was point to an unlucky GF loss for his reasoning that his methods would bear fruit, so I don't buy that as the sole reason for his departure.

I also wonder just what impact his major health scare had on him just before the season started.

What I mean is if they say for example drop Lance, they have to think about the next year when they are not incharge any longer and Lance bad mouthing them to the new boss. Which could then lead to the new boss causing problems for them in their less elevated positions.

If brown thinks dropping Lance now (at least from the halves) is a bad idea, then he's not the coach i thought he was

I didn't suggest it was. I suggested that it may have been one of the reasons why. I don't know anything; I'm just speculating, same as everyone else.


I'm not sure it was a major health scare. The treatment he received is given when specialists spot skin damage which could lead to precancerous cells developing. My Dad had the same treatment as a precautionary measure (in his instance, following an actual incidence of skin cancer to deter the spread).

If he'd been performing to a standard that was anywhere near decent then I could understand that viewpoint.

I understand that, but you have pushed the 'player power' reasoning for his departure more than any other on here.



I thought he'd had a cancer scare that turned out not to be?