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Much talk on the radio about the return to school - general view is that teachers are more at risk from each other than they are from the children. More likely teachers will pass the infection on to the children than the other way around. This point was made by a member of SAGE this morning on Radio 4 and by Jennie Harries on BBC 1 this morning.
The risks to children's health is greater not going to school than going?
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Yes but what about the Adults, if they contract it who is going to take over the teaching and what will they need to do to the school to make it safe.
I note that other countries have employed those student teachers about to qualify to cover where necessary, we have not.
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This is the same Jennie Harries who stated that the action taken by the government was exemplary and the shortage of PPE was blown out of proportion, we didn’t need to test test test because we are a first world country and saw no reason why Cheltenham could not go ahead so not exactly a reliable source.
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Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"The usual defence all parties are bad or the other one just think how bad it would be if Corbyn had won. The problem with this is that we are talking the effects of the virus on education. The bottom line do you believe what the government say that it is safe to return because it is or is it due to the fact they want their parents returning to work.'"
Quote from OP.
Come on pal, what is your opinion on the handling of EXAM RESULTS, that is the topic here.
I ve already posted my opinion on the above.
Scarlet Pimpernell quote:
The problem with this is that we are talking the effects of the virus on education
So why have you talked about:
Camping
Death rate
Brexit
Unions
Nationalising railways
House of Lords
Quarantine of holidaymakers
Johnsons infidelity
MI6 Dossier
Armed forces (its their job)
Oh and the IRA
But now you just want to talk about education!!!
I don't care what it would have been like with Corbyn in control,because he isn't and not you,i or anyone knows how a Corbyn administration would have dealt with this situation.
Its not the usual defence,as i don't see a requirement to defend my opinion,i don't trust politicians across the spectrum.
Seems most people in the UK are similarly minded.
https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/apr/half ... ans-trust/
Education:
The need to get kids back to school is imperative for their education and because the economy needs the parents at work.
Is it safe ?
Its never going to be 100% safe.
But people get in their cars to go to work everyday and run a 1 -200 risk of dying in a car accident,so should everyone stop driving their cars to work until its safer! |
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Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"The usual defence all parties are bad or the other one just think how bad it would be if Corbyn had won. The problem with this is that we are talking the effects of the virus on education. The bottom line do you believe what the government say that it is safe to return because it is or is it due to the fact they want their parents returning to work.'"
Quote from OP.
Come on pal, what is your opinion on the handling of EXAM RESULTS, that is the topic here.
I ve already posted my opinion on the above.
Scarlet Pimpernell quote:
The problem with this is that we are talking the effects of the virus on education
So why have you talked about:
Camping
Death rate
Brexit
Unions
Nationalising railways
House of Lords
Quarantine of holidaymakers
Johnsons infidelity
MI6 Dossier
Armed forces (its their job)
Oh and the IRA
But now you just want to talk about education!!!
I don't care what it would have been like with Corbyn in control,because he isn't and not you,i or anyone knows how a Corbyn administration would have dealt with this situation.
Its not the usual defence,as i don't see a requirement to defend my opinion,i don't trust politicians across the spectrum.
Seems most people in the UK are similarly minded.
https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/apr/half ... ans-trust/
Education:
The need to get kids back to school is imperative for their education and because the economy needs the parents at work.
Is it safe ?
Its never going to be 100% safe.
But people get in their cars to go to work everyday and run a 1 -200 risk of dying in a car accident,so should everyone stop driving their cars to work until its safer! | |
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"Yes but what about the Adults, if they contract it who is going to take over the teaching and what will they need to do to the school to make it safe.
I note that other countries have employed those student teachers about to qualify to cover where necessary, we have not.'"
Given the very limited incidence of Covid in the community the chance of teachers being infected is 325k from 65m so 0.5% it seems the risks are very low and surely this is an acceptable level of risk? We are being told a vaccine is end of 2021 earliest so are we prepared to disrupt children's education for another 18 months? On line learning is no substitute for school where education is only one part of the benefits of attending |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Given the very limited incidence of Covid in the community the chance of teachers being infected is 325k from 65m so 0.5% it seems the risks are very low and surely this is an acceptable level of risk? We are being told a vaccine is end of 2021 earliest so are we prepared to disrupt children's education for another 18 months? On line learning is no substitute for school where education is only one part of the benefits of attending'"
Time for some blunt honesty.
Kids need to be back at school and there WILL be an increase in cases and SOME additional deaths but, on balance, it's worth it.
Kids with vulnerable adults/family will need to take additional precautions.
and in some cases will need on line /home schooling.
I found it interesting that Chris Witty actually said that it was safe for kids to be back at school but, didn't mention the external risks that would increase.
His paraphrasing was straight out of the Cummings handbook and clearly some of his "independence" has been lost / bought.
Also worth noting that one of the schools in Dundee now has 17 positive cases among it's small teaching staff. |
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Time for some blunt honesty.
Kids need to be back at school and there WILL be an increase in cases and SOME additional deaths but, on balance, it's worth it.
Kids with vulnerable adults/family will need to take additional precautions.
and in some cases will need on line /home schooling.
I found it interesting that Chris Witty actually said that it was safe for kids to be back at school but, didn't mention the external risks that would increase.
His paraphrasing was straight out of the Cummings handbook and clearly some of his "independence" has been lost / bought.
Also worth noting that one of the schools in Dundee now has 17 positive cases among it's small teaching staff.'"
Agree on balance it has to happen.
Damned if you do,damned if you don't. |
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Time for some blunt honesty.
Kids need to be back at school and there WILL be an increase in cases and SOME additional deaths but, on balance, it's worth it.
Kids with vulnerable adults/family will need to take additional precautions.
and in some cases will need on line /home schooling.
I found it interesting that Chris Witty actually said that it was safe for kids to be back at school but, didn't mention the external risks that would increase.
His paraphrasing was straight out of the Cummings handbook and clearly some of his "independence" has been lost / bought.
Also worth noting that one of the schools in Dundee now has 17 positive cases among it's small teaching staff.'"
I completely agree with the above - perhaps if the teachers had practised what they preach the situation may not have been as bad as it would appear? |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Given the very limited incidence of Covid in the community the chance of teachers being infected is 325k from 65m so 0.5% it seems the risks are very low and surely this is an acceptable level of risk? We are being told a vaccine is end of 2021 earliest so are we prepared to disrupt children's education for another 18 months? On line learning is no substitute for school where education is only one part of the benefits of attending'"
The level of risk varies depending people’s actions and how policy/rules influence that. There’s also the time dimension to consider when assessing that risk. Where does the 325k figure come from?
It is about balancing different risks. There’s no solution, just choices - until there’s a vaccine, anyway. |
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I agree that kids have to get back to school at some point, and we will see how that goes in a week's time. It's going to be a very interesting run up to Christmas, that is for sure.
The sheer amount of contradictory advice and opinion is staggering. At one end of the scale, schools are the safest places in the world with children being pretty much immune to the virus and also incapable of passing it on. At the other end of the scale, schools are breeding grounds for the virus with children being potent carriers and super spreaders to everyone they come into contact with. Someone is going to be right. Let's just hope it's those who think the former.
I've still got a question over the line which I keep reading about Covid being 'much less virulent among children'. I'd like to know the cut off age at which children are less virulent and just as virulent as adults. I'm just thinking about secondary schools with sixth forms where the kids are aged 11 to 18.
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AS far as I'm aware, Sweden never closed their schools and i believe they've had maybe 1 death. And as the stats shows, their is no covid-19 epidemic in the uk anymore
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"The level of risk varies depending people’s actions and how policy/rules influence that. There’s also the time dimension to consider when assessing that risk. Where does the 325k figure come from?
It is about balancing different risks. There’s no solution, just choices - until there’s a vaccine, anyway.'"
325k comes from the Governments own stats site
I agree there is a trade off of risk - if we all wore Hazmat suits all day I am sure the infection would spread less - but that is not an option. |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"325k comes from the Governments own stats site
I agree there is a trade off of risk - if we all wore Hazmat suits all day I am sure the infection would spread less - but that is not an option.'"
Fair enough - but what is it? I’m guessing confirmed cases? Given we’ve had 40k+ deaths at least partly attributed to or associated with Covid-19 and excess mortality of 60k+, I’d assume there must have been a lot of unrecorded cases based on the estimates of risk of death I’ve seen. And our testing capacity was limited at the first peak of the crisis. If it killed > 10% of people who got it, that would be even more frightening than it actually is. |
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| Bottom Line: Children are as expendable as the rest of us on the Tory altar of profit and greed.  |
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| Quote ="Superblue"Bottom Line: Children are as expendable as the rest of us on the Tory altar of profit and greed.
'"
You really are a sad individual. |
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| Quote ="Superblue"Bottom Line: Children are as expendable as the rest of us on the Tory altar of profit and greed.
'"
Bottom line: Kids are the future and their education via attending school is a very important part of them achieving their potential. If we deprive them of that opportunity we should hang our heads in shame. |
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The question is how long will the no face mask stance last. Will he stand by the decision after sending out the cabinet or will he as per usual do a u-turn and send out the already damages Gavin Williamson to explain what changed.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Bottom line: Kids are the future and their education via attending school is a very important part of them achieving their potential. If we deprive them of that opportunity we should hang our heads in shame.'"
I think they have to give it a try. My son has been mixing with his friends all summer and he's now back training at two clubs each week so school in two weeks doesn't seem such a big extra step.
My recommendation would be that until there is a vaccine that families with kids in school don't mix with elder relatives etc. just in case. |
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"The question is how long will the no face mask stance last. Will he stand by the decision after sending out the cabinet or will he as per usual do a u-turn and send out the already damages Gavin Williamson to explain what changed.'"
I am obviously getting the hang of how this government operates. |
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"I am obviously getting the hang of how this government operates.'"
lol
You cant claim any credit for predicting his next move.
Exaggerate, waffle, U turn. |
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I didn’t see the mutation of the algorithm, that’s a new one. I bet Starmer won’t know where to start at the first PM questions, he has so much material over a short period to work from.
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| Quote ="Scarlet Pimpernell"I didn’t see the mutation of the algorithm, that’s a new one. I bet Starmer won’t know where to start at the first PM questions, he has so much material over a short period to work from.'"
All Starmer need to do is let Boris fall on his own sword.
Severely tested but, boy, has he been found wanting.
They called us bitter Socialists when such accusations were made pre the GE but.........................
Having said that, the very fact that Labour, in 10 years of opposition, couldn't organise themselves to defeat this shower, is warning itself.
The HAVE to find enough middle ground to appeal to the masses and then supplement this with some decent policies.
The real issue for the Tories, which hasn't even been brokered yet, is, just how and when will the accrued debt (which makes the last recession look like the good times) be paid for.
Huge unemployment, huge business failures, massively shrinking tax receipts and a debt that dwarfs anything seen in our lifetime,
All the noise is that Boris will abdicate in January, probably on "ill health" and then what ?
(oh yeah, let's not forget Brexit) |
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The debt will be paid down over decades - we will not be the only country in this situation.
Everything will be overlooked if the government start to get things right from now and that is the biggest challenge going forward.
Boris needs to upgrade his cabinet and quickly - the likes of Williamson have been found wanting and need binning, a line drawing under where we are and effective policies instigated and implemented. Understand the country's mood and work with it.
Immigration is still an issue, returning to normality i.e. going back to office - which is more about the commute than working in the office and the cost of it - something needs to be done.
Put the exams back a month but don't cancel them again etc. No more austerity but no huge increases in public sector pay either - achieve a balance - encourage voters to return to normal.
We have become a nation terrified of this virus - its bonkers
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"The debt will be paid down over decades - we will not be the only country in this situation.
Everything will be overlooked if the government start to get things right from now and that is the biggest challenge going forward.
Boris needs to upgrade his cabinet and quickly - the likes of Williamson have been found wanting and need binning, a line drawing under where we are and effective policies instigated and implemented. Understand the country's mood and work with it.
Immigration is still an issue, returning to normality i.e. going back to office - which is more about the commute than working in the office and the cost of it - something needs to be done.
Put the exams back a month but don't cancel them again etc. No more austerity but no huge increases in public sector pay either - achieve a balance - encourage voters to return to normal.
We have become a nation terrified of this virus - its bonkers'"
What I find a little strange is that, although the small local businesses need their regular customers, who may be those who work in town and city centres, with the importance of getting kids back to school, it would be more sensible to leave people working from home until the schools are "bedded back in".
This will help stress on public transport and also help ensure that we dont have to back track on schools.
Trying to get schools back, everyone back in their usual place of work, eating out etc, all at the same time is surely going to see cases rise and with so many towns and cities (especially up North) getting close to hitting new restrictions, "we" seem to be turning the tap to full, instead of increasing the flow at a sensible level.
It seems that there is genuine panic starting to set in over the economy but, if we move too quickly, we will end up going backwards instead of forward. |
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