i went to watch st annes 2nds in the cup today and when i arrived heard the game was off due to rose bridge not raising a team this is becoming a common thing as pilks didnt have enough last week against us and others over the course of the season in all divisions have not turned up including us against leyland 18th dec before people think am having a pop at other teams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is rugby dying out

The problem seems to lye with the 2nd teams of the so called 'bigger' clubs mate. We had it kast year with Blackbrook A, this year with Golborne A, Pilks A have given more games than I care remember this year, including the games v us...perhaps if the clubs started getting punished as oppose to the individual team then it might stop teams entering A teams not knowing whether they can raise a side from week to week!

It is frutrating though!

I think the problem is more a div 3 issue that anything. Thats not a slight at division 3 its just that this division is traditionally extremely hard to get out of because its normally full of good teams either sliding down or coming up. When clubs get a certain amount of success that attracts players and soon the numbers warrant a 2nd side. Then the club has 2 problems, progressing the 1st team and sustaining the 2nd. Inevitably the 2nd sides attract players who just actually want to play rather than have the hassle of 1st team rugby. So when or if the 2nd side hits the 3rd division it tends to fall apart. As far as I can see there only Leigh East and Miners who's 2nd sides have made the transistion past 3 and both sides for a long time where round about that level.

Punishing clubs is an option but I think it would do just as much harm to the progressing clubs like Cobras, View and to a certain extent Hindley & Ashton by imposing sanctions. Thankfully at Ashton we haven't lost a game this season through lack of players (although yesterday the 2nd side provided 4 lads to the 1sts, had a couple unavailable a debuted a 16 year old stand-off). If we can carry that through to the end of the season we'll be happy with that.

Morning Glory..

you havent mentioned the case of youth comming through the ranks at club level.

you may find the that there are a certain amount of clubs that do not have a youth section..this to me is imperative.a must..

but the hard part here is... to keep them together and a constant flow to make it succesful.to have the coaches for this to happen and parents to help out at the age groups comming through.this is in my eyes the foundations of heading in the right way of being a successful club.if you dont have this then you may only survive..

there are many things we can discuss about this topic..i hope people post in here and give there points over because this is a good point made by chenko...IS RUGBY DIEING OUT?

We have managed to get a steady 2nd team now at SV with 15,16,17, mainly made up of lads that came through from the 18's and lads getting involved who have never played before. With the exception of 3/4 18s that are in our first team. I think its a credit to the lads involved in our second team that they have stayed together when they haven't been entered into a league, and have been surviving of friendlies....albeit I expect that we will be entering a second team next year, its the same at hindlley I think. At the minute there is no youth set up at SV but I'm led to believe in order that get certain accredatations that we must establish a youth set up over the next few years.

But I agree with the last post in so much as if a club is to be established and sustain an open age first and second team then it is a must that there is a steady flow of lads coming up from 16,17 and 18s rugby....therefore once again I think it is upto BARLA and RFL to put time and money into these age groups for the long term good of OA ammy rugby.

You're right I didn't mention it and I agree youth sections should be a must, so that further funding and/or accreditation can be accessed, which is waht CA is aluding to, I think. Having said that if I could bottle the magic formula for keep an u16's squad together right through to completing 18's I'd be a rich man by now!

To answer Chenko's question, I don't think rugby is dieing out, its changing but not dieing out. The problems with teams not fielding teams through lack of numbers has been around since year dot but it won't see the end of the amatuer version.

The whole thing needs a review within the context of how the league operates.

The league is structured as a competitive, almost elite type structure from top to bottom assuming every club is a) fully developed and b) that every team is carrying over the strength from one year into the next. The fact is, you've got development teams struggling at the bottom, struggling 2nds around the middle and even now the odd 'traditional' team struggling higher up. It needs a tiering system that allows some flexibility lower down.

You can argue that teams shouldnt enter if they are not developed but at the end of the day - we surely want new teams and for people to play rugby league and there was no other development route other than risking NWC. Aslo, few secretaries really know their real squad size/strength until a few weeks into a season so they have to take a punt - that's what i think happens with 2nds who then lack numbers.

Also, lifestayles have changed. its increasingly rare that an individual is available every weekend over a season - have a few people with other commitments at the same time and suddenly a side can't play. So clubs need bigger squads to complete the same number of games and there is not a sudden increase in playing numbers so some will struggle.

And then league rules do not help. Given peoples lifestayles chnage etc. the league really should allow clubs free weekends if they give notice. We at Bury have taken some stick because we have conceded because of a stag doo and will concede next week most likely as our players will be at a wedding. We asked at start of year about the free...but there we no frees allowed so it's conceded games again.

The final thing that needs looking at is the penalties. 18 - 0 isnt enough points and fines should be based around when a team concedes. Nothing is worse than getting a phone-call at 1pm on the day - surely a club knows before that if they will struggle? It cost us c. £100 per game when teams did that to us in our first two years and we were renting a school pitch and doing the food ourselves. Penalties for conceding on the day should be higher to discourage one side messing another about.

we have given 3 games so far this season and if i remember rightly we travelled to spring view with a scratch team and got done 22 nil so we havent cried off from both games with you cowies.

anyway, its not just frustrating for the opposition when we cant raise a team, its also frustrating for me and the other coaches. over the last 3 years i have put a lot of time and effort into getting our 2nd team upto div 3 from div 5 and then 3rd place in div 3 at xmas. we have worked hard pushing our youth players thru to open age but what that doesnt combat is peoples change of working patterns etc. we have lost lads who once they become time served (around age 21 ish) within ther employment they have to then go on shift patterns (which includes saturdays), we have had numerous players having to take jobs were saturday work is compulsory. due to the current climate they have to do it cos who knows when the next job offer will come along. also lads having babies (not literally) changes things.

people say that u shud know if you aint got a team by 1 o clock on a sat. thats not true at all. we had 9 lads the other week and 2 or 3 possibles. had those possibles said yes then we wud have turned up to play with what we had, as i said on a previous post we tried everything. we went to ulverston with 14 and that included me and my assistant coach, of which neither of us had played for a few years and also our stat man.

so my answer to chenkos question is - rugby league isnt dying out, society is changing and no amount of money the RFL can spend will change that.

Not accusing anyone of crying off mate, just pointing out that when one club is trying two raise to sides, its gotta be tough, and it just seems that the majority of games that have been given, it has been done by A teams.

Just stating a Fact, not having a pop at Pilks 2nd team, I know you guys turned up at our place the above was a typo, you men put a good shift in

Personally, I think the jump from Under 18's to anything above Div 5 may be a bit of a big jump for some. For others, they will go straight into the 1st team, never mind the second team. We have had a few who have gone from the 18's straight into the NCL Prem side over the years. But for some it takes a few years to adapt to OA rugby.