You're right I didn't mention it and I agree youth sections should be a must, so that further funding and/or accreditation can be accessed, which is waht CA is aluding to, I think. Having said that if I could bottle the magic formula for keep an u16's squad together right through to completing 18's I'd be a rich man by now!

To answer Chenko's question, I don't think rugby is dieing out, its changing but not dieing out. The problems with teams not fielding teams through lack of numbers has been around since year dot but it won't see the end of the amatuer version.

The whole thing needs a review within the context of how the league operates.

The league is structured as a competitive, almost elite type structure from top to bottom assuming every club is a) fully developed and b) that every team is carrying over the strength from one year into the next. The fact is, you've got development teams struggling at the bottom, struggling 2nds around the middle and even now the odd 'traditional' team struggling higher up. It needs a tiering system that allows some flexibility lower down.

You can argue that teams shouldnt enter if they are not developed but at the end of the day - we surely want new teams and for people to play rugby league and there was no other development route other than risking NWC. Aslo, few secretaries really know their real squad size/strength until a few weeks into a season so they have to take a punt - that's what i think happens with 2nds who then lack numbers.

Also, lifestayles have changed. its increasingly rare that an individual is available every weekend over a season - have a few people with other commitments at the same time and suddenly a side can't play. So clubs need bigger squads to complete the same number of games and there is not a sudden increase in playing numbers so some will struggle.

And then league rules do not help. Given peoples lifestayles chnage etc. the league really should allow clubs free weekends if they give notice. We at Bury have taken some stick because we have conceded because of a stag doo and will concede next week most likely as our players will be at a wedding. We asked at start of year about the free...but there we no frees allowed so it's conceded games again.

The final thing that needs looking at is the penalties. 18 - 0 isnt enough points and fines should be based around when a team concedes. Nothing is worse than getting a phone-call at 1pm on the day - surely a club knows before that if they will struggle? It cost us c. £100 per game when teams did that to us in our first two years and we were renting a school pitch and doing the food ourselves. Penalties for conceding on the day should be higher to discourage one side messing another about.

we have given 3 games so far this season and if i remember rightly we travelled to spring view with a scratch team and got done 22 nil so we havent cried off from both games with you cowies.

anyway, its not just frustrating for the opposition when we cant raise a team, its also frustrating for me and the other coaches. over the last 3 years i have put a lot of time and effort into getting our 2nd team upto div 3 from div 5 and then 3rd place in div 3 at xmas. we have worked hard pushing our youth players thru to open age but what that doesnt combat is peoples change of working patterns etc. we have lost lads who once they become time served (around age 21 ish) within ther employment they have to then go on shift patterns (which includes saturdays), we have had numerous players having to take jobs were saturday work is compulsory. due to the current climate they have to do it cos who knows when the next job offer will come along. also lads having babies (not literally) changes things.

people say that u shud know if you aint got a team by 1 o clock on a sat. thats not true at all. we had 9 lads the other week and 2 or 3 possibles. had those possibles said yes then we wud have turned up to play with what we had, as i said on a previous post we tried everything. we went to ulverston with 14 and that included me and my assistant coach, of which neither of us had played for a few years and also our stat man.

so my answer to chenkos question is - rugby league isnt dying out, society is changing and no amount of money the RFL can spend will change that.

Not accusing anyone of crying off mate, just pointing out that when one club is trying two raise to sides, its gotta be tough, and it just seems that the majority of games that have been given, it has been done by A teams.

Just stating a Fact, not having a pop at Pilks 2nd team, I know you guys turned up at our place the above was a typo, you men put a good shift in

Personally, I think the jump from Under 18's to anything above Div 5 may be a bit of a big jump for some. For others, they will go straight into the 1st team, never mind the second team. We have had a few who have gone from the 18's straight into the NCL Prem side over the years. But for some it takes a few years to adapt to OA rugby.