Mod hat is off by the way, the following is posted purely as a fan.

What compells certain Widnes fans from constantly giving their tuppence worth on the Crusaders and/or Harlequins issue?

The way I see it is this. Our top flight status is entirely unconnected to the issue of the crusaders continuing existence. We're doing the right things as a club to get that status, so we don't need to feel bitter about it any more. We all feel cheated about the way we've been treated in the past, but theres no need to bang on about it. You just give people reason to start bashing us.

Yes, were all entitled to an opinion, and it's not great when we are unfairly generalised and used as a diversion tactic by people trying to deflect criticism of expansionism but its high time some people learned some diplomacy.

The other day there was a thread about crusaders finances. Then someone claiming to be a widnes fan, who has never been on here, feels the need to bring up our finances into it. Why? You know what that's going to do. Just leave it.

So yes, give your opinions, just don't feel compelled to give them every single time, and harp on and allow discussions to scrutinise us, it's getting embarrassing to see people invite others to run us down. And for god's sake, if you're going to go into those threads, just leave widnes out of it. Those issues are not our fault or problem.

well said dalto, I just don't get involved with anything on the VT anymore, regards people who post on there and never on here I suspect they're trolls from other clubs abusing our name. For some strange reason some weirdo from Halifax always does it from what I can see.

Jealousy i suspect but some people really do have a sad life.

Starbug also drags the widnes name into threads even though he's a lobby.

I think some of it is caused by the constant goading and baiting that goes on on the VT. Barely a thread goes by before Widnes are mentioned. It almost like an automated defence mechanism - "we're in the , lets drag something up about Widnes" For example "Harlequins are crap" is usually followed by "at least they bring something to SL, unlike Widnes who have been there and failed, why bring them back?" Some people probably just feel the need to put people right on their views.

The other side of it is the licence issue. There was a certain political correctness about not bashing Celtic when they got a licence. Everyone outside SL knew it was a farce, but the majority of SL fans seemed to want to give them a shot and the slightest criticism of Celtic or the licence decision and you were met with Flatcapper, nothern town blah blah. You basically weren't allowed a negative opinion on Celtic or Quins for that matter. The recent comments that have been made are probably more of a case of "I told you so" and sticking 2 fingers up to the VT regulars.

The problem is Chris, matters such as those surrounding the Crusaders and Wakey and Quins are of big interest within the RL community regardless of the club you support.
Clubs seemingly given every opportunity to succeed that continue to struggle are going to raise eyebrows and generate discussion. It seems wrong to me that fans of this club should be excluded from that discussion based on the fact that any comments we make are immediately rounded upon by those with an anti-Widnes agenda. At the same time, I think that you are completely right and the comments by some such as Brostar are not helpful. Unfortunately this guy obviously isn't a Widnes fan as VM suggested and is simply on this site to cause mischief.
At the same time you can't really argue that a removal of Crusaders from SL would have no bearing on us whatsoever...
There would seemingly be three possible outcomes from this episode if it did transpire that the Wrexham club folded...
a) Exactly what happened last time in that the Welsh franchise is moved or taken over by a new entity and they would continue on into 2012
b) No-one takes over the franchise, the league is reduced to 13 teams and clubs face a couple of weekends without a game (The situation prior to 2009). Until 2012 when a team is promoted to make it 14 clubs again.
c) A club is invited to replace the club going out of existence. This club would undoubtedly struggle in year one, but the RFL may come to the table with a couple of suggestions or some assistance to mitigate any harm this may cause.

I'm firmly positioning myself in the camp that I don't want wrexham to fold. I'd personally look forward to a couple of games against these guys in 2012 if we go up and they seemed to be making some progress on the club in 2009.
As I speak..rlNew Welsh Franchiserl

So basically Blackpool can't liquidate current company and start again but Crusaders can with the RFLs full support. What s fudging joke are game is we desperately need one of SLs big guns like Wigan to lead a protest and we can get those two self proclaimed RL super 'men' out of our game!

THe OP is correct in that whats going on at the crusaders has no bearing on Widnes application to super league.

However it does have a bearing on the other SL clubs who might be facing the prospect of not having there SL licence renewed.

If come next July Salford, Cas, or wakefield find themselves out side of SL for 2012, they will feel they have been well and truely shafted given the crusaders have completely failed to actually run as a business and start again from scratch 2 years out of three.

Its all well and good saying its the previous owners debt fault, but when starting up they was supposed to provide a robust and achieveable business plan so that they could demonstrate that they could survive meeting there historic and present needs. They have failed to do this dispite being given a shed load of help, oppertunites and resourses that other clubs who might lose out have not been given.

The club that loses a place in super league has to be seen to be the worst club overall in super league, can you really say thats anyone other than the crusaders given there past record and what appears to be going on at present?

Good post, Chris.

You're dead right too. Why indeed.

What has given you that idea?

That bothered me too. Apart from not being banned which means you are allowed to post, starbug has brought decent discussion here frequently over the years.

I hope he doesn't confuse people disagreeing with him with people shooing him from the board. I've said it time and time again, it's not a fan site, stick to the rules and don't come in on a wind up and your welcome to post here.

I told him to clear of when he was Questioning our 1 million profit, but if that was the reason then he wants his head testing.

But what has any of this got to do with us right at this time?

Take a look at the thread on this on the VT. Who are they currently talking about???

US. And it's because you brought us into the discussion even though it's nothing to do with us. If you're going to post on there, stop comparing their situation to ours, that just invites scrutiny and gives people an easy escape route.

Is that not why the main discussion about it is on the VT and why not brought up on this board, as clearly put to bed on Widnes for SL 2011 thread?

Is it related to our past, yes whichever way you want to view it. Does what the RFL do effect all clubs, yes. That's the way I say it. There are not many saying haha have it Cru! So in total honesty I don't see any problem whatsoever. I couldn't care less who the side is, it's the RFL's integrity that's at stake here. If people want to avoid the point by talking about Widnes, then let them!

I think bringing Widnes into everything is the problem. This is the Crusaders problem, and not ours. Once you start moving in criticizing them, they will hold up or own past administration as proof of the stupidity of Widnes fans in trying to take some moral stance over the situation in Wales. Guess what? They are perfectly right to point that out to you. We went bust as well not so long ago and now, instead of other fans saying get [i'Widnes in' [/iand speaking of us positively, the whole cr@p we went through in 2007 is being dragged up again and some Widnes fans are embarrassing themselves and their club by trying to pretend that we didn’t go bust and we paid off all of our debts. Well we did go bust and the new club didn’t pay off the vast bulk of our debts, just HBC and a few local business’s, so it’s best to keep a low profile and, as Chris has said, don’t give the s on the VT an easy way to deflect from the subject and have yet another go at our club.

I’d prefer to sit back and watch them wriggling and squirming while trying to justify the indefensible.