phelps coaches a cricket team btw

I agree with most of that as depressing as it is.

The one thing I will say is that I dont think this side is as bad on paper as it performs. Unfortunately we just make poor decisions constantly and we cannot defend.

It's not nice to call for the coaches head but realistically we cant keep carrying on with away games being a non-starter, regularly nilled, record defeats, record club defeats, the worst points difference to date in SL history and a stretch of around fiteen games having conceded more than thirty points in each game. No side has been as bad as this having come up to SL.

Betts doesnt seem to have had any kind of positive effect on our performances to date.

We arent as fans expecting miracles and I do think it is a little hypocritical of other fans to come on here preaching that we have three years etc.. when they wouldnt be accepting the same if it was served up for them.

Unfortunately Bruce is right. We have no continuity or winning mentality in the side nor through the club. We have accepted mediocrity for that long under SOC that it is the norm now with these performances and we are just told to accept it as part of being a phase in building towards the future. What that future is nobody ever tells us mind.

Betts wont be gone anytime soon and the club will only lurch further backwards. SOC seems to think that he can build a squad that improves which is completely at odds to what he has shown to date in his time in the Championship and thus far in SL.

Just ask any Warrington fan what they think of Paul Cullens coaching ability! They didnt move forward until they got rid
Denis Betts has no proven success as a coach and tactically hasnt got a clue.
The writing was on the wall in The Championship. No idea whatsoever and the players know this!!
Basically, Widnes have 2 poor coaches running the show who have bought 2nd rate players. Get rid now and start again!
Steve O'Connor is a fantastic businessman and surely he is not going to see his business go down the pan by these clowns???!!
The current squad of players need to take a good look at themselves and decide if they are going to give 100% in every game. Thats all the fans want to see.
Lets be honest, there are a lot of players in The Championship who are better than some, if not most of our players and, would jump at the chance of a Super League contract (even more so if we had a decent coach to bring them on further!) We are having to loan in 4th choice players from other clubs who jump straight into our team! That says it all!

The problems start on the field, your squad is below average. The front row you guys had out last night is just not good enough for starting SL games. The back line has potential in Flynn and Craven but the average players continue to roll through. The lack of an impact player is obvious.

The problem started well off the field and well into last year.

Poor recruitment and then as we have carried on into this and last season an inability of a coach to directly impact on his players and make individual or team improvements.

That team last night is never going to get into the playoffs we aren't that stupid.

It shouldn't be getting pinged 62-0 though in a derby game and well into the early part of the year when you would expect players who may be out of their depth to put it about abit more in the hope of impressing.

Things aren't going to change either. Betts can't make improvements, Cullen talks the best game I have ever heard and SOC has taken it all in and has let mediocrity set in throughout the club.

As a Broncos fan I feel that the situation with Betts is the same as with Powell. Average squad made worse by a terrible coach. Look what Noble did with an average Crusaders squad. A decent coach that can motivate can do something with an average squad. Powell and Betts both seem very poor coaches to me and don't get the squad playing with intensity or desire. Anyway good luck for the rest of the season, keep the faith.

Either Ste O'Connor has the patience of a saint,he is stubborn or he doesn't feel for the club as much as the fans.That is the only explanation I can draw from him allowing this lunacy to continue destroying the club and turning fans away in their droves.We are not talking about mere defeats here which most supporters could accept,we are talking absolute mullerings with no light at the end of the tunnel and no signs of improvement.We are embarrassing and that hurts the most.Betts is so out of his depth it is unreal.The warning signs were there though last season when he failed to dominate in the championship and suffered four heavy defeats twice to both Leigh and Featherstone within two weeks of playing them and learning nothing.

Unfortunately as bad as it is to type it, SOC is most of the problem I think. He has swallowed it all from Betts and Cullen over the last couple of years and genuinely believes that this is what we have to go through as a new side in order to develop over the three years.

He has done some wondeful things for this club but it cant honestly be said that we have been anything other than average on the pitch during his time with us.

He has allowed this mediocrity to take over the club and unfortunately I think he will allow it to continue as the club strive for the development that he believes can happen or has been told can happen with these current systems in place.

The reality is that nothing is changing. The same problems exist from Championship to Superleague yet as fans we know nothing.

It was always going to be difficult for Widnes in your first year back in SL. But the team is getting pounded almost every week so someone like Noble would be a good choice. I am certain he would make you a more difficult team to beat and pick up a couple more wins during the season than the current coaching team

We need a change in mentality from top to bottom. SOC needs to instill that failure isn't acceptable and the best way to do this is to sack Betts, Cullen whoever and bring in someone who won't accept anything other than winning. Winning mentality, winning culture at the club and things will improve. Until then we change this then we are going to scrapping it out round the bottom of superleague accepting that mediocrity is okay.

I have tried to hold my own council since friday, and i realise its a bit pointless, but i would just like ot say i think Paddy, GSF and The Cuffster have each nailed my own feelings.
never mind 'dare to dream' the club moto should be 'win or die trying!'

chins up you will come good sometime,but hey who put 38 against the worst saints side since 1996 but then look what happens



whats the saying "another day another game"what do you think of the stadium?

Firstly, I'm a Warrington supporter of over 45 years. In the past I have disliked Widnes RL -either because they were successful or had Jim Mills or both.
Whilst it's undeniably true that you haven't got the best squad of players, I'm not sure any team should be taking the sort of beatings you have so far. It's not good for Super League. I only hope that Paul Cullen doesn't have the same unhappy ending he had with us. He is a decent bloke.

He may be a decent bloke but is no good as a coach otherwise wire wouldn't have moved him on

You related to Cullen.

Joking aside i do not know him personally but i do know a few who do and they think he is a knob.

So, its 10:30 on Monday now and still no stronghold text saying Betts and Cullen have gone and a new age of hope and glory has dawned.

Denis Betts was a fine Rugby League player but isnt a good enough coach. Steve O'Connor has to bite the bullet now and sack him and Paul Cullen. Brian Noble as other people have said should be appointed and at least there would be some improvements that will give the Widnes fans something to cling on to. I wanted Noble on a short term contract at Saints until the end of the season when Nathan Brown comes in. He is a dam fine coach is Noble.

Betts is [ipossible[/i a good number 2 man, but get in someone with a lot more experience and drive about themself and the game. Then Widnes can hopefully see out the first year with glimmers of what is possible and passion (like the CC game) then move on to the second year of the franchise and have a really honest hit-up at the league.

Widnes are in a mess. That is obvious from the results.
Whether the squad is good enough or not is not the point.
All players were either recruited or retained by Betts and Cullen. They are the people in charge of the squad and the current state of the results is their responsibility.
They need to be replaced. Whether others need to go would be a decision for the new men who will run the place.
A complete clear out may be the best thing.
Noble is a clear favourite amongst fans on here which is understandable after his time with Crusaders. Six weeks prior to the season he'd only 8 players but still managed to get them to 8th in the league.
However, it may be too late to get Nobby. He's involved in the Caisley move to take over the Bulls.
Widnes are now in such a mess it may well be a difficult to sign a top quality coach as it was to sign top quality players.
I just wish you the very best of luck as you are going to need it.

Whitehaven ?

Heard from a good source a few players do not understand him and his tactics.They don't enjoy his coaching.

Wouldn't even bring in Noble, we need an Aussie like Nathan Brown or Michael Maguire to set the club right top from bottom.

It's nearly impossible to defend DB at the moment but in my opinion I can see why the board haven't sacked him just yet. If we park the away games for a moment as I genuinely think there is more weight being given to Home games.
I think after the early games against Wakey and Salford a target was set of beating London. But before we even get there we put in one decent performance against Leeds and then a fantastic result against Wigan. To top it all off we win the London game and DB buys himself more time. No complaints!
Then we have an atrocious game against Bradford and he is probably issued a final warning again. What happens next... we very very nearly beat Saints. Everyone's happy (well nearly everyone)
What is this followed by? The performance on Friday night. I am almost certain looking at the games coming up that DB would have met with PC and SOC and a frank conversation about the expectations concerning this upcoming game and indeed the Cats home game would have been had. If we are honest this is the first away game in which we should be expected to be able to compete and possibly win.
Hudds, Hull FC, Catalans, Warrington and Saints all have the capacity to paste us and it was no major surprise they did. Unfortunately in this game a beating turns into a mullering very easily especially when confidence is low. The manner of the defeat is galling but along with Leeds and Wigan I would have said we could get mullered at these grounds. Hull KR I have kept away. I know we got murdered up there but to be honest the conditions were shocking and we lost Ben Cross and Paddy Ah Van in that match.

So is it any surprise he is still at the club? Not really. I actually think that it's a good thing we have a Chairman that shows some patience. We all laughed at Des Johnston up there and things are not too far down a dark alley that we can't find our way out to where we want to be. Keeping him for this long is reasonable concerning the results, keeping him beyond the next three games if we don't perform would be a time to start scratching your head. Until the end of the season and I agree it's bonkers.

I do think it is likely that if we lose and lose badly at Cas then DB may be moved out.
Maybe we'll get a win and it will galvanise the team and we begin to perform better. t's certainly a good opportunity to put two good performances together back to back.

Before our next mullering against the Wire.

Surprise victory over Catalan providing they through to the next round of the cup? Week off to prepare?

The recruitment for this season was very poor - although you didn't have much time to build a decent squad.

For the rest of this season I'd look for more loan signings - Liam Hood has just gone to Dewsbury and would have been a useful player to have around. I'm sure there are a number of quality players in the U20s who'd do a better job than some of those you've had playing this year. I'd also be looking at the top Championship teams and see if they have any players who fancy the challenge for the rest of the season to earn a SL contract.

What you can't do is just let this season go down the tubes the way it is, or you'll find recruitment for next season even harder.