| FORUMS > Hull FC > Do the stats really lie? |
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Not been on here for a while as have been on holiday, but was catching up with a few articles on the official website and a couple stood out in particular.
The following stats were mentioned in these two articles ( www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18407 & www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18388):
- The Black and Whites have won ten of their last fifteen Super League outings, a record that can only be bettered by the top two of Wigan and Warrington
- The 106 tries scored this season is the most we have registered since making the Grand Final in 2006
- The wins against Catalans and Crusaders meant we notched up over 90 points in back-to-back fixtures for the first time since 2004
- The 58-18 win against Crusaders RL was the first time that the club have notched up five 50+ scores in a season since joining Super League
I know a lot of people on here call out Hull, and thus Agar, for a lack of attacking rugby and the ability to kill teams off, but going by the stats the improvement is there for all to see this season. The fact that our recent form is only bettered by Wigan and Warrington, two teams who we'd all agree are a significant way ahead of us on the field, shows that we are doing things the right way and only minor improvements in the squad and, particularly, the way we start our season will make for a successful 2012.
The additions of Seymour, Heremaia, Ellis and McKinnon, plus others still to be announced, will strengthen our squad in key positions and allow the attacking rugby to continue. Meanwhile, the likes of Briscoe and Yeaman (one of the most potent attacking wing/centre partnerships in the competition) and Westerman, who has shown some excellent form in recent months, will aid the attacking rugby that we all savour.
On a personal note, I've always been frustrated by our inability to 'kill teams off' - hitting them where it hurts and racking up 40/50 points - something that we have done this season in unprecedented fashion as a club since we joined Super League.
Now Agar may or may not be here next season, but we are certainly (on the fact of it anyway) going the right way about changing things. Maybe the stats do lie, but it certainly appears that one of Agar's greatest criticisms, a lack of free-flowing, attacking, try-scoring rugby, is a thing of the past. |
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Not been on here for a while as have been on holiday, but was catching up with a few articles on the official website and a couple stood out in particular.
The following stats were mentioned in these two articles ( www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18407 & www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18388):
- The Black and Whites have won ten of their last fifteen Super League outings, a record that can only be bettered by the top two of Wigan and Warrington
- The 106 tries scored this season is the most we have registered since making the Grand Final in 2006
- The wins against Catalans and Crusaders meant we notched up over 90 points in back-to-back fixtures for the first time since 2004
- The 58-18 win against Crusaders RL was the first time that the club have notched up five 50+ scores in a season since joining Super League
I know a lot of people on here call out Hull, and thus Agar, for a lack of attacking rugby and the ability to kill teams off, but going by the stats the improvement is there for all to see this season. The fact that our recent form is only bettered by Wigan and Warrington, two teams who we'd all agree are a significant way ahead of us on the field, shows that we are doing things the right way and only minor improvements in the squad and, particularly, the way we start our season will make for a successful 2012.
The additions of Seymour, Heremaia, Ellis and McKinnon, plus others still to be announced, will strengthen our squad in key positions and allow the attacking rugby to continue. Meanwhile, the likes of Briscoe and Yeaman (one of the most potent attacking wing/centre partnerships in the competition) and Westerman, who has shown some excellent form in recent months, will aid the attacking rugby that we all savour.
On a personal note, I've always been frustrated by our inability to 'kill teams off' - hitting them where it hurts and racking up 40/50 points - something that we have done this season in unprecedented fashion as a club since we joined Super League.
Now Agar may or may not be here next season, but we are certainly (on the fact of it anyway) going the right way about changing things. Maybe the stats do lie, but it certainly appears that one of Agar's greatest criticisms, a lack of free-flowing, attacking, try-scoring rugby, is a thing of the past. | |
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Some good valid points, I think our 5 drives and a kick are a myth. We have certainly played more expansive rugby this season.
However the results or league positioning do not lie.
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Thanks for that Herr Goebbels
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| Quote: Marfa Manu "Some good valid points, I think our 5 drives and a kick are a myth. We have certainly played more expansive rugby this season.
However the results or league positioning do not lie.'"
Of our first 10 league games, seven were defeats. Therefore, in the following 15 games, we only lost five. If we improve our start, and had begun playing the attacking rugby earlier in the season, our season would be markedly different. |
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| Quote: cod'ead "Thanks for that Herr Goebbels'"
I understand the reference, just not the application. |
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Been saying all season that people moaning about boring, 5 drives and a kick rugby haven't been watching the same team as me this season. We do look better with ball in hand, undoubtedly, and are looking to promote the ball much more than in previous seasons. We have also not been ted by the likes of Wigan and Warrington this season, which again is a positive.
The issue for me is our dismal failure to trouble anyone above us in the table, Wire away and Cats at home apart. It's unacceptable to be having a must win game this weekend to even get into the 8. Unacceptable. We lack the mental steel and composure to win key games under Agar, fully evidenced by our record against clubs above us, our failure to win a play-off game for 4 years and to beat SL competition in the cup in over 3. So in summary, we are more entertaining, for sure. But losing 5 of every 6 games against teams above us under Agar is simply unacceptable. Scoring more tries along the way is welcome, but the league table doesn't lie.
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| Quote: Cardiff_05 "Of our first 10 league games, seven were defeats. Therefore, in the following 15 games, we only lost five. If we improve our start, and had begun playing the attacking rugby earlier in the season, our season would be markedly different.'"
It would be different, however we have a coach who has had a few years to get his team together so there are no excuses for the poor start which has proven costly.......The thing that gutted me the most was losing in the cup to a very average Leeds team after the strong lead we had at h/time, we are pants in big games. |
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What percentage of those wins have been on a friday night?
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Been saying all season that people moaning about boring, 5 drives and a kick rugby haven't been watching the same team as me this season. We do look better with ball in hand, undoubtedly, and are looking to promote the ball much more than in previous seasons. We have also not been ted by the likes of Wigan and Warrington this season, which again is a positive.
The issue for me is our dismal failure to trouble anyone above us in the table, Wire away and Cats at home apart. It's unacceptable to be having a must win game this weekend to even get into the 8. Unacceptable. We lack the mental steel and composure to win key games under Agar, fully evidenced by our record against clubs above us, our failure to win a play-off game for 4 years and to beat SL competition in the cup in over 3. So in summary, we are more entertaining, for sure. But losing 5 of every 6 games against teams above us under Agar is simply unacceptable. Scoring more tries along the way is welcome, but the league table doesn't lie.'"
Summed up perfectly, nothing I can add to that. |
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Given that 2 of the 5 fifty scores were against lowly opposition in the cup it is still only 3 and we've been dire when it mattered most. It is somewhat sychophantic that the club can spout this as a major plus point.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Been saying all season that people moaning about boring, 5 drives and a kick rugby haven't been watching the same team as me this season. We do look better with ball in hand, undoubtedly, and are looking to promote the ball much more than in previous seasons. We have also not been ted by the likes of Wigan and Warrington this season, which again is a positive.
The issue for me is our dismal failure to trouble anyone above us in the table, Wire away and Cats at home apart. It's unacceptable to be having a must win game this weekend to even get into the 8. Unacceptable. We lack the mental steel and composure to win key games under Agar, fully evidenced by our record against clubs above us, our failure to win a play-off game for 4 years and to beat SL competition in the cup in over 3. So in summary, we are more entertaining, for sure. But losing 5 of every 6 games against teams above us under Agar is simply unacceptable. Scoring more tries along the way is welcome, but the league table doesn't lie.'"
Spot on. The bad start followed by a decent run mostly just relates to when we've had our games against the decent sides. We lost 7 out of 10 because 5 of those games were against the current top 7, we've actually won 9 of the last 15, but it's been helped by the fact that we've only played 7 league games against the same teams in that period and managed the Wire and Catalans results. So we were still only really the 2 results better.
This year we've simply improved our results against the bottom half of SL, that's all. |
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the most important stat is that we are 8th in a 16 team league and may be 9th at the end. bottom half of the table is not acceptable for this team. we should be contesting 4th as a minimum given our resources, fan base and off field set up
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| Quote: the artist "the most important stat is that we are 8th in a 16 team league and may be 9th at the end. bottom half of the table is not acceptable for this team. we should be contesting 4th as a minimum given our resources, fan base and off field set up'"
It's actually 8th out of 14, so we're already in the bottom half. We need to catch Cas to make the top half. |
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Last year we won a number of close games (including against the better teams in the league) particularly at home. This year we have lost those games but generally beaten lower teams more convincingly. At the start of the season it was fashionable to post Agar's recent record of losses over the last x games. Less so now because as the OP stated 10 from the last 15 isn't bad.
We haven't won enough games at home this year (Wakefield/Cas being the costliest defeats). The style of play has been miles better thanks to the addition of more half back cover (Obst/Westerman) - we have ridden injury problems to Long and even Nicklas who would have played a lot of games otherwise. Overall we have neither gone forwards or backwards really which is a little disappointing.
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| Quote: Staffs FC "Last year we won a number of close games (including against the better teams in the league) particularly at home. This year we have lost those games but generally beaten lower teams more convincingly. At the start of the season it was fashionable to post Agar's recent record of losses over the last x games. Less so now because as the OP stated 10 from the last 15 isn't bad.
We haven't won enough games at home this year (Wakefield/Cas being the costliest defeats). The style of play has been miles better thanks to the addition of more half back cover (Obst/Westerman) - we have ridden injury problems to Long and even Nicklas who would have played a lot of games otherwise. Overall we have neither gone forwards or backwards really which is a little disappointing.'"
This time last year we were looking like we could finish 4th, this year it's 7th at best and potentially 9th. I'd say that was backwards |
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