FORUMS > Hull FC > Hall makes cross city switch shocker! |
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "I actually think you've validated precisely the point that FC Wembley 08 was making, well done. Hall hasn't delivered his potential at Hull, but Rovers fans by and large assume he will do easily under Morgan's coaching.
Briscoe - made the Dream Team when at Hull FC. Good last year, calls for him to be dropped for a utility back this season.
Cooke - a better and more successful player at Hull than at Rovers
Wheeldon - OK at Hull and played in a Grand Final. Not progressed significantly under Morgan
Hodgson - heralded as a fantastic signing in a squad with a relatively poor quality of hooker but take a look at the hidden forum where generally people are a bit disappointed in his progression. Contrast with Houghton who at 21 has played 78 first team games and won players and fans player of the year this season.
Mariano - who? As you say, token inclusion who Morgan is struggling to develop into a SL standard player
Colbon - the definition of average and in reality has probably gone backwards this year (albeit troubled by injury)
Chuck in Menzies, Esders, Spaven, I'Anson, Ratu, Kirk Netherton as young players with potential that Morgan's not transformed and you can see why the rather arrogant view that Hall only has to turn up to training with Morgan to realise his international potential is somewhat discredited.
Its all a point of perspective, there isn't a team in SL that hasn't had a turn over of playing staff and recruited both good and bad players. I agree on some of your general thread direction that people who think Morgan will wave a magic wand turn hall into greg ingliss are either slightly blinkered or just trying to points score.
I think the points you have made could be reversed on any number of your own players and be deemed to be valid that they haven't come on, With the exception of Tom Briscoe and Danny Houghton I could argue every other FC player has gone backwards under Agar, how many have played a GF under his tutorage.
As you've not seen these our players week in week out (as I haven't yors) the points you make are slightly undermined. Sometimes its not how a player plays individually but how a team plays with a player in the team, Colbon being the perfect example. Briscoe's dip in form came at the same point as Colbon's injury, once Liams back in the line Briscoe looks very good again, as a team we look a far better unit with Colbon in it. This is not a criticism with Mrs B's post because a lot of our own fans don;t see it.
On the topic of Hall, I think a complete change of scenery would have done him more good, maybe Cas or even further afield, as he'll still be deemed under pressure and in the spotlight at our place. As a squad player this will be an unfair pressure. If he shines Morgan will take the credit,if he fails Morgan will get criticised whether it will be down to him will never be known personally the change of environment will be the crucial factor.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "I actually think you've validated precisely the point that FC Wembley 08 was making, well done. Hall hasn't delivered his potential at Hull, but Rovers fans by and large assume he will do easily under Morgan's coaching.
Briscoe - made the Dream Team when at Hull FC. Good last year, calls for him to be dropped for a utility back this season.
Cooke - a better and more successful player at Hull than at Rovers
Wheeldon - OK at Hull and played in a Grand Final. Not progressed significantly under Morgan
Hodgson - heralded as a fantastic signing in a squad with a relatively poor quality of hooker but take a look at the hidden forum where generally people are a bit disappointed in his progression. Contrast with Houghton who at 21 has played 78 first team games and won players and fans player of the year this season.
Mariano - who? As you say, token inclusion who Morgan is struggling to develop into a SL standard player
Colbon - the definition of average and in reality has probably gone backwards this year (albeit troubled by injury)
Chuck in Menzies, Esders, Spaven, I'Anson, Ratu, Kirk Netherton as young players with potential that Morgan's not transformed and you can see why the rather arrogant view that Hall only has to turn up to training with Morgan to realise his international potential is somewhat discredited.
Quite! Yet Morgan clearly gets more from his players then Agar does. Under Agar, we've gone backwards or stood still, where as under Morgan KR have gone forwards.....
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| Quote: GM1 "Quite! Yet Morgan clearly gets more from his players then Agar does. Under Agar, we've gone backwards or stood still, where as under Morgan KR have gone forwards.....'"
I dont think that is true, Rovers have recruited better than us for the last 4 years (mayeb apart from last year), Agar first full recruitment year has seen us improve. Also we are much improved to when he took over from Sharp in 2008.
Nobody can argue that Rovers have moved massivley forward under Morgan, but I think he gets backed better from his board (although this backing might backfire in the long run).
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| I guess we will see by the end of next season if Morgan has waved his magic wand and unleashed the untapped potential to turn Hall into a top quality Centre. I'll go out on a limb right now and say I highly doubt it.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "I guess we will see by the end of next season if Morgan has waved his magic wand and unleashed the untapped potential to turn Hall into a top quality Centre. I'll go out on a limb right now and say I highly doubt it.'"
If he plays left centre in-between Mason, Blake and Colbon we'll still never know.
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| Quote: Robbo4 "I guess we will see by the end of next season if Morgan has waved his magic wand and unleashed the untapped potential to turn Hall into a top quality Centre. I'll go out on a limb right now and say I highly doubt it.'"
That's pretty much how I see it.
That said the first time he makes a break in the derby or sets up a try he will be hailed a success but I reckon there will be numerous other games where his world caved in on the back of a silly mistake or he got ran round, through and over by an opposition centre.
Some very good and some very bad sums up Halls career so far.
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| Said It on here before and G<Geko had a go at me for it, yet I'm still to be proved wrong. Half decent NL1 player end of.
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| Quote: knocker norton "That's pretty much how I see it.
That said the first time he makes a break in the derby or sets up a try he will be hailed a success but I reckon there will be numerous other games where his world caved in on the back of a silly mistake or he got ran round, through and over by an opposition centre.
Some very good and some very bad sums up Halls career so far.'"
The thing is.. players performing against their previous clubs is a matter of course in sport but doesn't make the said player particularly special.
ie. Paul Co**e - vs us for Rovers & Wakey and even Tommy Lee had a good game against us when Crusaders beat us early on!!
I fully expect Craig Hall to score against us next year but that won't make me feel any different about it being the right decision to release him. I would also expect us to pepper him with every high ball match up a running centre against him!!
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| Quote: Robbo4 "I guess we will see by the end of next season if Morgan has waved his magic wand and unleashed the untapped potential to turn Hall into a top quality Centre. I'll go out on a limb right now and say I highly doubt it.'"
I don't think its a case of waving a magic wand, most people on here would accept hall's a confidence player, the noises morgan is making regarding him is all about building his confidence, he's mentioned working on his defence but talking up his attacking capabilities as well as not messing him about using him as a utility player but settling him down into his preferred position of centre. Time will tell if it works, but you don't build a players confidence by hauling him off after a mistake or leaving him on the bench unused for 80 minutes, or actually criticising him in your after match press conference, all things agar has done in the past.
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| Quote: FC Wembley 08 "The thing is.. players performing against their previous clubs is a matter of course in sport but doesn't make the said player particularly special.
ie. Paul Co**e - vs us for Rovers & Wakey and even Tommy Lee had a good game against us when Crusaders beat us early on!!
I fully expect Craig Hall to score against us next year but that won't make me feel any different about it being the right decision to release him. I would also expect us to pepper him with every high ball match up a running centre against him!!'"
I doubt he will get in unless we have an injury.
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| Quote: rover49 "I doubt he will get in unless we have an injury.'"
Does make you wonder why you signed him purely because he used to play for us, surely not?
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| Quote: sandy "Time will tell if it works, but you don't build a players confidence by hauling him off after a mistake or leaving him on the bench unused for 80 minutes, or actually criticising him in your after match press conference, all things agar has done in the past.'"
Has he?
I'm a big fan of Hall but I don't recognise that treatment of him at all. He's been hard done to more by circumstances than any particular coaching failures IMO.
I expect him to do better at Rovers than at Hull, but not because Morgan is some kind of super-coach. You have a more structured defence which will help him a great deal, and if he is actually played in his preferred position that will also help.
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| Quote: rover49 "I doubt he will get in unless we have an injury.'"
He's a better centre than Welham.
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| Quote: Standee "Does make you wonder why you signed him purely because he used to play for us, surely not?'"
No, its because he is 22, English, played a lot of SL and can score tries, but until his defence is sorted Morgan would be mad to put him in front of Webster or Welham. I am not saying he won't get a game, just he won't be first choice just yet. I can see why he was an attraction, especially as he wouldn't cost a lot.
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