I know this point has been partly discussed on another thread but I hope I’m widening the point enough for the mods to indulge me with a new thread.

The rumour of which I have no reason to disbelieve is that Max Jowitt has been offered by a top club a £50,000 PA deal plus a £500 match bonus - for which I have to say a genuine wow.

What a problem that must be for a Chairman and his Coach who are trying to build a team. For starters we can’t compete with the match payments as I suspect it would ruin our pay structure and team moral but at a pinch we could possibly justify £50,000 PA ….if!

The “if” is this - do you or more importantly the club believe that MJ has the potential to go all the way or is he basically as good as he will ever be or worse a one season wonder - a very common occurrence in RL. If it’s the latter then he isn’t worth the risk , obviously - if it’s the former we have some hard choices to make.

It’s hard because Warrington for example can afford to take the odd punt and we just can’t, or more to the point we can’t at those prices. My problem is that it’s far to early to make that call on MJ and it highlights a dreadful flaw in the way the game treats young players. MJ needs time as do we but big spending clubs like Warrington simply won’t wait. I’m not digging at them as that’s how the game currently is and as such they are technically at least doing nothing wrong - free market and all that.

How we get around it seems beyond the powers that be but for now we have to try and compete with one hand tied behind our backs. We will have to decide and we as fans may not like the outcome.

Not trying to sound patronising but here are three cautionary tales to help us make up our minds or perhaps confuse us even more. However they do demonstrate the difficulties facing the club.

1: Chris Feather. During the 2002 season despite what folk say about him now he was the stand out young prop in SL - for most of that season he was head and shoulders above the rest and possessed the physical attributes to back it up. Leeds agreed and he joined the SL giants. From that point he went backwards at a rate of knots and basically had a relatively poor career. Had he stayed at Wakefield for a few more seasons would that have been a different story - personally I doubt it.

2: Ben Westwood. During the 2002 season Ben was one of the better players in a team that started poorly, but not a stand out like Feather was. For whatever reason he Joined Warrington as part of the Nathan Wood deal. At the time we were all annoyed at the loss of yet another young player but not as alarmed as we were when say Ellis left because at the time Westwood wasn’t that highly rated , certainly not 25 England caps rated! For me he is now the biggest loss this club has ever made in pure playing terms because unlike Ellis we basically got very little out of him but I can only say that in hindsight. It would be such a shame if Jowitt was to to go on and do the same, crushing in fact because as it transpired Westwood was the sort of player who would have made it anywhere IMHO.

3: Danny Kirmond. In 2012 he reached the heights of being selected for the SL dream team and I believe was close to England selection. Being an established player and having proved himself over the following season we then quite rightly we pushed the boat out to keep him. Yet despite his recent return to some kind of form I think even his biggest fans would say he’s been poor value for money over the last 3 years. Sure most of it’s been down to injuries but it does go to show that even what appears to be a sure bet can be anything but in RL.

It’s such a difficult call for clubs like ours who have very little wriggle room. The big clubs can afford big gambles on a regular basis, we unfortunately can afford them maybe once every three to four years and even then they need to be as sure a bet as you can possibly fined. It’s not a decision I would like to make and one non of us on here are qualified to IMO. Basically we have to trust the club and the player and his advisors, like it or not.

I totally agree with all that.

I would seriously hate to lose Max - I believe he will be a superstar in years to come, but what do I know?

It's a real dilema for the club and in them we have to trust!

Westwood didn't want to go but Ted needed the money so no option there. With Ellis, and even further back Hunte, we couldn't compete with bigger guns and they went on to fulfil potential.
At the end of the day it's always down to the individual player and his advisers.
If Wire are offering big money on a pay per game but then have him behind three or four other more experienced fullbacks what good is it to his development or representative honours and awards potential? Better to be 1st choice at Wakefield with regular match time and all the spin off benefits?
Look at how quickly Hampshire is sliding into obscurity by taking the early shilling.

We should be looking at keeping him, building the side around him, Johnstone, and Crowther.

£50k per annum, does sound a lot, but it having worked on Salary Caps at 2 Super League clubs, it in comparison to other players it is about average. This would equate to just over £4k per month. Most of the ones I recall were between £3.5k per month and £5k. It is, however, quite a lot for someone of his age, with only bout 20 games under his belt.

With the appearance bonus, is he likely to play week in week out, I'm not sure.

If it comes to it, we need to offload those players who aren't getting game time, such as Owen and Tansey, to help keep players like Jowitt and Johnstone

Better for Max and the club he stays. Jay Pitts took the big move to Leeds and is now in the Championship. Stay and learn. Your time will come.

This sums it up for me. Offload the squad players who are surplus and if MJ is deemed worth it make sure what we offer is better than anyone else.

I suppose the bigger question is who has the expertise to know whether MJ is worth the gamble?

Great post Vasty. Consider yourself indulged.

I think my take on Jowitt is that he is worth it.
I remember all those scenarios you discuss and agree with all your conclusions.

The difference with Jowitt is his style of play.
I don't think that it will be the case but one season wonder tags tend to be with peopl like Johnstone, when you realise it was actualy the centre giving the winger the good ball, rather than the skill of the winger (like Foster at Sts or Ainscough) They can turn out to have serious flaws that were not obvious in their first season.
Same with forwards. Feather went too early in my opinion. Leeds tried to turn him in to something he wasn't and killed his career. He wouldn't have been a world beater but a coach decision to run a player on the left or right, or more likely down the middle can seriously change their effectiveness.

I'd even go as far as to say Andy Kelly suffered from that. At Wakefield he had Topper giving him great passes and he ran tries in at will as he was big and fast and looked an International certainty. He went to Hull KR where they had Hartley who was more of a running stand off and they played him as more of a battering ram down the middle. He was still good and played for England but I think he'd have been a regular if he'd either stayed or gone to Hull with Topper. When he came back when DT was coach they were both older but you could see they could both still do it.
Kirmond's change in success did have something to do with Smith going as well, though injuries probably more so.

For Max I'd say the fact that he is so confident under the high ball, and in his tackle defence shows he has a lot of good to work with and will improve those areas with experience rather than show a flaw.
His attacking style suits us perfectly. He hits the line more like a Tomkins, looking to draw and link, rather than a BJB or a Hardaker, who hit the line straight and make the break. The difference again is that BJB/Hardaker would look good in a team that is running the ball and has spaces to hit, but can be found out quickly when the space isn't there. I'm not sure about Warrington. Max reminds my of how Brett Hodgson played, and it was very valuable to Warrington. They may see that and want to draw it out of Max. That would be good for his development if he went but as stated above, he is going to be behind the runners and line breaking full backs for a while and he may never get to show what he has got.

If I were Chester, I'd try and make sure he knew he has a long future here and that his development would increase at a steaper rate if he stayed. He can always make the decision to go to the big show when he's learned his trade here. That assumes that 1) Max is trainable, which he seems to be, 2) we have the skills in the coaching staff to develop him - which I appreciate Chester has but I'd be tempted to get some specialist help for him - maybe even Brett Hodgson) and 3) that the money isn't so much bigger than what we can afford that it just wipes out the first two no matter what.

I hope he stays.

Sorry but IMO that's a bit of a falsehood, certainly in Owens case though I do get the point. The only reason Owen isn't getting a game time is because because Jowitt and Johnstone have exceeded expectations and BJB failed at F/B meaning he had to revert to the wing. With B Tupou not really finding any form and Hall still struggling to tackle and Johnstone picking up knocks we may well need Owen very soon.

This kind of highlights the problem for me. As a club Trinity need to run a squad of 30+ to compete. However we can't afford top players for each position so we need versatility to make up. This gives us very little room to develop real talent long term whilst maintaining a competitive squad in the short term - it's a tough scenario that shows no sign of changing.

From my memory that wasn't quite what happened, although I'm sure we needed the money, when don't we.

Westwood and Wood fell out with Peter Roe. Warrington were sniffing around Wood and then also took an interest in Westwood. Seeing as neither wanted to play under Roe and someone had got in their ears and as you say the money was on the table they went.

I may be wrong but that's what I was told at the time.

In an interview on Super League Superstars Westwood said he never knew about the transfer until it happened. He arrived for training one day and was told to sit it out. Then at the end of the session he was told that he'd been sold to Warrington. It was quite a shock for him as he highlighted by the fact that he couldn't drive at the time.

That's the story I remember reading too.

I'm not sure I buy that, the truth probably lays between the two - players love to spin a yarn.

It's similar to the player who arrives at a club saying he's always wanted to play for {insert new club} since he was a small boy - it's a great catch all way to placate the fans of your new or in this case previous club. Even Ted who could be dodgy couldn't just sell a player without their knowledge and consent as far as I'm aware - I suspect he was given an option which it was strongly suggested he took.

However the poor lad not being able to drive but is a shocker.

I take your point also Vastman.

Though I do think Owen could have played by now, given the injuries we were suffering in the backs a few weeks ago. Her made the 19 but never made the squad. Regarding Bill Topou, he had been injured for a couple of months, and although dont think he is back to his best, having watched the game again from Thursday, he did seem in attack to be a handful, often beating the first man.

Both Owen and Tansey were sent out on loan, and neither side were interested in taking them on permanently.

I would rather fight to keep Jowitt, over both Owen and Tansey any day. He has shown more, in less time, and his salary at the moment is probably about 25% lower than his team mates.

One thing regarding where we are at, compared to the rest of the Super League, is that with Leeds and Huddersfield struggling, with the addition of Wigan and Saints being constantly hit and miss, there looks like maybe there is a shift now as to where the stronghold is in Super League. Warrington, Catalans and Hull have been the most consistent, but I dont think I would call them head and shoulders above anyone. With this, it is very wide open, and there is the potential there for any side at the moment, with a potential clean slate. We are one of these.

I said at the start of the season, and still agree to some point, that we are a bit quantity over quality in the backs. For me, Jowitt and Jonhstone have been head and shoulders above any of the others, whilst the others havent let us down. They all bring something different, but have something in their game that is lacking a bit.

I feel for us to continue our progression, we need to look at quality more than quantity to mount a more serious challenge, maybe reducing the squad size, by 1 say, and bring in a real quality centre.

We did look totally out on our feet against Hull KR, but could this be to do with the players increased training hours put in place pre season, that is just starting to catch up on us

I agree with most comments on here and I firmly believe MJ is worth a punt.
If we're to let the likes if MJ go what is the point of 1873?
As a fan who has stayed loyal to the 1873 cause and helped to develop such players as MJ, it would be nice to think loyalty to this club played as big a part as the lure of money.

Problem will come if Wire or Wigan slap 200k on the table for Jowitt or Johnstone. Are we in any position to knock that sort of fee back? I would guess probably not. Disappointing as it would be to lose either I think with time it is inevitable.

The cautionary tale I believe is generally for the players not the club.