FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > £500k supporters trust = only 50% ownership?
120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing
RankPostsTeam
International Star11No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2016Nov 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Having read the statement on the WTRLFC website and today's Wakefield Express, I am a little unclear as to how the proposed supporters' trust is expected to work (another example of poor communication from the club!).

First things first, it would appear that WTRLFC Ltd is currently or soon to be (upon service of HMRC's next winding up petition) technically insolvent (i.e unable to pay its debts as they fall due). If this is the case then the current shareholders' stake in the company are worthless.

In view of the franchise application process, the club cannot go into Administration as this would be a black mark in terms of the 'Finance' part of the application. The fact that the RFL will bend the rules for that Crusaders farce is a disgrace but WTW has to work to different rules and avoid Administration if it stands a chance of securing another 3 year licence in the wonderful world of sky's super league.

If up to 500 supporters pay £500k (to be subsequently made available to sort WTRLFC Ltd's arrears position) then the supporters trust should receive 100% (or at least greater than 50%) of the shares in WTRLFC Ltd in exchange for ensuring its survival. The current board would call an EGM of the current shareholders to pass a resolution for all shares to be handed over to the supporters trust. Given time is of the essence, it may be quicker for a number of the current shareholders (with a combined holding greater than 50%) to undertake to transfer their shares to the trust.

The supporters trust would then rightly have total control of the club and appoint a new board of directors who would be given the £500k to spend and go forward within a sustainable business model which does not ever rely on an alleged £350k payment from a 3rd party developer to plug a funding gap in the club's finances.

Please could somebody confirm whether or not this is what is intended by the current BoD and major shareholders?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4291
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2024Oct 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Something like that, or at least thats as I understood it............sort of lol

RankPostsTeam
International Star190No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2015Mar 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Dont think those who are able to put forward the money are looking for ownership. Just helping to keep going something that means alot to them and the wider Wakefield community. We have very little identity in this merry city, all we are botherd about is keeping going what identity we have before becoming another suburb of Leeds.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2769No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2017Jul 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

Squadbuilder.........building a squad together:



Quote: Ovat Bobbin "]Having read the statement on the WTRLFC website and today's Wakefield Express, I am a little unclear as to how the proposed supporters' trust is expected to work (another example of poor communication from the club!).

First things first, it would appear that WTRLFC Ltd is currently or soon to be (upon service of HMRC's next winding up petition) technically insolvent (i.e unable to pay its debts as they fall due). If this is the case then the current shareholders' stake in the company are worthless.

In view of the franchise application process, the club cannot go into Administration as this would be a black mark in terms of the 'Finance' part of the application. The fact that the RFL will bend the rules for that Crusaders farce is a disgrace but WTW has to work to different rules and avoid Administration if it stands a chance of securing another 3 year licence in the wonderful world of sky's super league.

If up to 500 supporters pay £500k (to be subsequently made available to sort WTRLFC Ltd's arrears position) then the supporters trust should receive 100% (or at least greater than 50%) of the shares in WTRLFC Ltd in exchange for ensuring its survival. The current board would call an EGM of the current shareholders to pass a resolution for all shares to be handed over to the supporters trust. Given time is of the essence, it may be quicker for a number of the current shareholders (with a combined holding greater than 50%) to undertake to transfer their shares to the trust.

The supporters trust would then rightly have total control of the club and appoint a new board of directors who would be given the £500k to spend and go forward within a sustainable business model which does not ever rely on an alleged £350k payment from a 3rd party developer to plug a funding gap in the club's finances.

Please could somebody confirm whether or not this is what is intended by the current BoD and major shareholders?'"
]
supporters trust NOTHING to do with club !
when are club insolvent

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach27039No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2017Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17219_1385659818.jpg
onetiger = half a cabbage The night is dark and full of terrors. Winter is coming.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17219.jpg



Quote: Ovat Bobbin "Having read the statement on the WTRLFC website and today's Wakefield Express, I am a little unclear as to how the proposed supporters' trust is expected to work (another example of poor communication from the club!).
First things first, it would appear that WTRLFC Ltd is currently or soon to be (upon service of HMRC's next winding up petition) technically insolvent (i.e unable to pay its debts as they fall due). If this is the case then the current shareholders' stake in the company are worthless.

In view of the franchise application process, the club cannot go into Administration as this would be a black mark in terms of the 'Finance' part of the application. The fact that the RFL will bend the rules for that Crusaders farce is a disgrace but WTW has to work to different rules and avoid Administration if it stands a chance of securing another 3 year licence in the wonderful world of sky's super league.

If up to 500 supporters pay £500k (to be subsequently made available to sort WTRLFC Ltd's arrears position) then the supporters trust should receive 100% (or at least greater than 50%) of the shares in WTRLFC Ltd in exchange for ensuring its survival. The current board would call an EGM of the current shareholders to pass a resolution for all shares to be handed over to the supporters trust. Given time is of the essence, it may be quicker for a number of the current shareholders (with a combined holding greater than 50%) to undertake to transfer their shares to the trust.

The supporters trust would then rightly have total control of the club and appoint a new board of directors who would be given the £500k to spend and go forward within a sustainable business model which does not ever rely on an alleged £350k payment from a 3rd party developer to plug a funding gap in the club's finances.

Please could somebody confirm whether or not this is what is intended by the current BoD and major shareholders?'"



The supporter trust is nothing to do with the club, how it turns out will depend on support for the trust.

RDM
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach708
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



I doubt that the full £500k will be made available to the new BoD to spend as they like - the vast majority will be accounted for already through a combination of outstanding debt (either to suppliers/bank/HMRC) and other payments that are already committed over the next few weeks/months.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach27039No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2017Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17219_1385659818.jpg
onetiger = half a cabbage The night is dark and full of terrors. Winter is coming.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17219.jpg



Quote: RDM "I doubt that the full £500k will be made available to the new BoD to spend as they like - the vast majority will be accounted for already through a combination of outstanding debt (either to suppliers/bank/HMRC) and other payments that are already committed over the next few weeks/months.'"




icon_lol.gif I would tend to agree, sadly.

Like you say its to "clear the decks".

J.T
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member7494No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2016Apr 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
3662_1306065880.jpg
[quote="EmmaMur01"]I hope they get relegated. Their fans are idiots.[/quote] [quote="vastman"] honest to god your like a big and not very bright child. [/quote] [quote="'Hitman' Norvern Soul"] You are a sprawling urban metropolis that was once one of Europe's major cities.[/quote] BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3662.jpg



Quote: RDM "I doubt that the full £500k will be made available to the new BoD to spend as they like - the vast majority will be accounted for already through a combination of outstanding debt (either to suppliers/bank/HMRC) and other payments that are already committed over the next few weeks/months.'"


I keep asking these questions and as yet have not received an answer but will try again.

Who is going to pay the image rights tax bill and next years tax bill, should we last that long, will the 500 be digging deep again?
How long will the 500k keep us going once the debts have been wiped out, is it just a stay of execution?
Exactly how big are the clubs debts?

Anyone being asked to 'invest' should be given this information. Oh sorry I forgot I should just give to show how much the club means to me...

RankPostsTeam
International Star15521
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2020May 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
50722_1319672516.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50722.jpg



Quote: BIGAL1 "

Unless administration is used in a proactive way; if the Trust acknowledges that SL isn't an option from 2012 onwards, going into administration will enable the majority of the historical debt to be wiped out, and make sure that any funds raised by a new share offering can be used in a more productive way.

My fear at the moment is that the current BoD could use any funds raised to discharge the clubs historical debt, *then* walk away en masse, bearing no responsibility for the mess they presided over and leaving the nascient Supporters Trust with virtually no operating capital.

The meeting on the 18th will be a good forum for these discussions.

RDM
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach708
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: J.T "I keep asking these questions and as yet have not received an answer but will try again.

Who is going to pay the image rights tax bill and next years tax bill, should we last that long, will the 500 be digging deep again?
How long will the 500k keep us going once the debts have been wiped out, is it just a stay of execution?
Exactly how big are the clubs debts?

Anyone being asked to 'invest' should be given this information. Oh sorry I forgot I should just give to show how much the club means to me...'"


JT - I work in corporate finance and have the same questions (and a few more besides). As I live & work in the south-east I couldn't make it to the meeting on Tuesday so was keen to see the club's statement, which doesn't really tell me anything. I called the club on Thursday to try to get some answers (information I'm reasonably entitled to as a shareholder) and was promised a call back from one of the BoD yesterday.

Needless to say I'm still waiting for the call, and although letters were apparently sent to shareholders on Thursday I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (you'd have thought that given the apparent urgency they'd be posted first class).

RDM
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach708
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: bren2k "Unless administration is used in a proactive way; if the Trust acknowledges that SL isn't an option from 2012 onwards, going into administration will enable the majority of the historical debt to be wiped out, and make sure that any funds raised by a new share offering can be used in a more productive way.

My fear at the moment is that the current BoD could use any funds raised to discharge the clubs historical debt, *then* walk away en masse, bearing no responsibility for the mess they presided over and leaving the nascient Supporters Trust with virtually no operating capital.

The meeting on the 18th will be a good forum for these discussions.'"


The difficulty with the current situation is that there is clearly an urgent need for the cash, but we have no idea how entering Administration will impact the franchise application.

If we knew we would be treated on the same basis as Crusaders (even if it is a negative mark against us both) then it would clearly be in the club's best interest to enter Administration now. Given that the indications are that the RFL's usual double standards would apply, appointing Administrators now would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

While I'm still waiting to get the full information from the club, it is almost certain that the bulk of the £500k will be put towards existing liabilities (be they overdue, imminent or contracted).

Equally, it's not as if the club needs massive amounts of working capital. We should need no more than £150k and should realistically be able to manage comfortably on a lot less than that.

J.T
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member7494No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2016Apr 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
3662_1306065880.jpg
[quote="EmmaMur01"]I hope they get relegated. Their fans are idiots.[/quote] [quote="vastman"] honest to god your like a big and not very bright child. [/quote] [quote="'Hitman' Norvern Soul"] You are a sprawling urban metropolis that was once one of Europe's major cities.[/quote] BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3662.jpg



Quote: RDM "JT - I work in corporate finance and have the same questions (and a few more besides). As I live & work in the south-east I couldn't make it to the meeting on Tuesday so was keen to see the club's statement, which doesn't really tell me anything. I called the club on Thursday to try to get some answers (information I'm reasonably entitled to as a shareholder) and was promised a call back from one of the BoD yesterday.

Needless to say I'm still waiting for the call, and although letters were apparently sent to shareholders on Thursday I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (you'd have thought that given the apparent urgency they'd be posted first class).'"


Good luck with that one I'm still waiting for a response to an e-mail I sent abouit the last share 'offer'.

RankPostsTeam
International Star15521
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2020May 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
50722_1319672516.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50722.jpg



Quote: RDM "The difficulty with the current situation is that there is clearly an urgent need for the cash, but we have no idea how entering Administration will impact the franchise application.

If we knew we would be treated on the same basis as Crusaders (even if it is a negative mark against us both) then it would clearly be in the club's best interest to enter Administration now. Given that the indications are that the RFL's usual double standards would apply, appointing Administrators now would be shooting ourselves in the foot.'"


I understand what you're saying, but I'm absolutely convinced that we have no chance of getting a franchise anyway - I'd prefer to see us cutting our cloth for the Championship and working towards a strong bid, out of NM, for 2015. In that scenario, entering administration would have no impact on a franchise application, as there wouldn't be one.

RDM
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach708
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: bren2k "I understand what you're saying, but I'm absolutely convinced that we have no chance of getting a franchise anyway - I'd prefer to see us cutting our cloth for the Championship and working towards a strong bid, out of NM, for 2015. In that scenario, entering administration would have no impact on a franchise application, as there wouldn't be one.'"


If the finances of the club can be stabilised and we can demonstrate that we will be playing the 2012-2014 seasons in stadia that meet SL criteria, then the only significant concern from a franchising perspective is attendances.

I don't doubt that the cost of maintaining BV is a huge drain on the club's cash & the sooner we move out, the sooner we get more cash from Cala Homes to further strengthen the finances.

Perverse as this may seem, if we aren't playing in SL between 2012 & 2014 I would much prefer this to be because of the RFL's double standards than because the club made the decision for them by not applying. That way we'd be able to build a 3 year campaign in the Championship to show the RFL how wrong they were to relegate us.

RankPostsTeam
International Star11No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2016Nov 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: BIGAL1 "The supporter trust is nothing to do with the club, how it turns out will depend on support for the trust.'"


Whilst the supporters trust would be a separate entity from the club and WTRLFC Ltd, it will have very much something to do with both as it will potentially give the club an opportunity to secure another super league franchise AND it may ensure the solvency of the corporate entity (i.e. WTRLFC Ltd) which currently owns the club!

I also fully appreciate that the vast majority of the £500k will be used to discharge existing HMRC/bank debt BUT the new board of directors will have to develop a sustainable business plan going forward once these arrears have been paid.

If the trust was to raise £500k then it should ensure that it has a controlling stake in WTRLFC Ltd and control over who sits on the Board before advancing any of these monies.

If not then these monies will be advanced to the same controlling individuals who have run the club towards its current precarious financial position.

Hopefully the above is clear as it should be communicated to prospective contributors to the trust that it will happen! The other matter that needs to be clarified is who will administer the collections of money into the trust...the club, WTRLFC Ltd or a 3rd party...it should be the latter.

All the above should be considered at the meeting on 18th Jan.

120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing
120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


5.47021484375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 27
rugbyleague8
25
9m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
ArthurClues
9899
9m
Film game
Boss Hog
3718
11m
This weeks disciplinary
silvertail-w
1338
11m
Squad for London
karetaker
30
14m
bulls on Sunday
Highlander
12
34m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
mwindass
3129
50m
Wolves again
BigTime
1
51m
Le Cats at home - Los Alomos Custers Last Stand
Jake the Peg
46
56m
Recruitment rumours and links
Kevin Turvey
3070
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
40s
bulls on Sunday
Highlander
12
48s
Le Cats at home - Los Alomos Custers Last Stand
Jake the Peg
46
49s
Recruitment rumours and links
Kevin Turvey
3070
54s
Rumours thread
imwakefieldt
2218
1m
Planning for next season
LeythIg
100
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62449
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
ArthurClues
9899
1m
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
NickyKiss
2871
2m
Round 26 Wigan Away
Once were Lo
144
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2327
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wolves again
BigTime
1
TODAY
Academy Players Promoted to First Team Squad
Simba16
2
TODAY
Squads - Leopards v Saints
Deeeekos
2
TODAY
Round 27 HKR Away
FlyingScotty
5
TODAY
Squad for London
karetaker
30
TODAY
Hull FC preview
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Halifax A
Wigan Bull
4
TODAY
East stand
PopTart
12
TODAY
Locations of League
Wollo-Wollo-
1
TODAY
Matt Parcell to leave at seasons end
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Huddersfiels to get new stadium
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
IMG
Fantastic Mr
2
TODAY
Leaving players
Murphy
1
TODAY
bulls on Sunday
Highlander
12
TODAY
Concerts at Stadiums
Fantastic Mr
11
TODAY
Finn out Murrell in
faxcar
11
TODAY
Playoff Semi Final
MattyB
3
TODAY
Bulls Accounts up to Nov 2023
Bullseye
13
TODAY
Shareholders Meeting
Scarlet Pimp
36
TODAY
James Clark
Jake the Peg
6
TODAY
Le Cats at home - Los Alomos Custers Last Stand
Jake the Peg
46
TODAY
Realistic targets for 2025
the cal trai
31
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Week 27
rugbyleague8
25
TODAY
Club Statement
UllFC
49
TODAY
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside York Knights Challenge
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Old FC when we knew how to play rugby
mk_fc
5
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition London Home
Wanderer
12
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
771
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
563
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
594
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
601
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
1022
Salford Close In On The Play O..
969
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1088
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
1051
Wigan Warriors Defeat Hull KR ..
1084
Wane Names Provisional Squad f..
1464
Leeds Rhinos Ride Their Luck F..
1412
Wigan Warriors Level Top As Ca..
1490
Castleford Tigers Inflict Anot..
1483
Leigh Into the Six After Beati..
1666
Five Into Three - Our Top Six ..
2240