FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Totally off topic but........ |
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| Quote: wotsupcas "Don't be live any of em..both sides only tell us "facts" to suit their argument. As for tax breaks we will be able to offer what the hell we like because we can make our own law's!!! As for trading with more with other euro countries ..where are the Germans gonna sell all those mercs and audis? Greece?bloody Albania? If it's a remain vote the europhiles will take it as a carte Blanche to dig us deeper into a euro state. No I'm not naive and form my own opinions . I do be live there are risks either way ..but this is the last chance we will ever get to remove ourselves from this failed experiment.we will have to continue to bail out the basket cases ad infinitum till they drag us down with them. There are numerous countries in the world that do just fine thank you without being dictated to by Germany and France. Trading agreement fine...but not this corrupt,unelected bureaucracy we have at the moment.'"
We could only set taxes at our side, which would have to be zero for most things as they are now otherwise we wouldn't trade anything. The EU would highly likely revert to their standard tariff for non trade agreement countries which means everthing that went to and from there would be subject to import and export duty, something that isn't the case now. So we could still buy those german cars you talk about, but unless they were built here they'd cost us more. And given that say bmw won't want to be paying an import tax everytime they ship a motor to the continent then they'd shift most of the production to their factories abroad to counter it. So yes as you say we'd need a trading agreement otherwise this country will be brought to its knees. But then we have to sign up to their conditions and pay for the privilege anyway. So we would have to adhere to their regulations but we would have no say at all in what happens. Thats the way you get dictated to.
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| Quote: TrinityIHC "Red tape such as working time directive, maternity pay, sick pay, annual leave and all the other rights that workers enjoy?
Rights for the consumer that give you recourse if a business sells you shoddy or defective goods - that kind of red tape?
If we leave, Cameron and his cronies will have us like the USA - barely any workers rights and services only for the wealthy - no thanks!'"
No one knows whether those protections would be in place or not, the U.K. May well have introduced them anyway and we might have gone even further, giving workers and consumers even more tights.
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
Moderator
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| Quote: Scarlet Pimpernell "We currently rely heavily on the finance sector however the bulk of that comes from the EU therefore by default we as a country will suffer. We also rely on the EU to curtail the extremes of employment law for example sick pay, maternity and the working time directive. I can't believe that Boris and his mates if successful would look to replace these with more draconian laws which they believe would increase profit.'"
This.
The main voices in favour of Brexit are the extreme right wing of the Conservative party. Does anyone seriously think they give a monkeys about working people? Everything they’ve said and done in politics over the past 30 years states the opposite. In the past they were all against the adoption of things like minimum wage and the 40hour week so you can expect these things to be quietly relaxed or dropped if we vote to leave. The Tories would turn further right wing if there was a Brexit. The right wing press go on about “red tape” but they’re all run by tax avoiding right wingers so don’t fall for the hype.
The political records of the likes of Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, John Redwood, Zac Goldsmith, Michael Gove, Ian Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Peter Lilley, Nigel Lawson, Norman Lamont speak for themselves.
While we stay in we all retain some limited protection in the workplace and as part of the EU we have more clout internationally. It’s far from ideal. It wastes a tremendous amount of money. However we’re better off in it where we can influence it rather than taking our bat and ball home.
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| Quote: The Avenger "No one knows whether those protections would be in place or not, the U.K. May well have introduced them anyway and we might have gone even further, giving workers and consumers even more tights.'"
And we all like tights
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| Quote: djcool "And we all like tights'"
Too right.
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| Quote: The Avenger "No one knows whether those protections would be in place or not, the U.K. May well have introduced them anyway and we might have gone even further, giving workers and consumers even more tights.'"
Oh yeah, I'm sure the conservatives who have set about dismantling the welfare state, privatising the NHS and giving tax breaks to big business are really keen to annoy them by giving the pesky workers more rights.
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| Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Katie Hopkins are all in favour Brexit. If that doesn't convince you to vote to "Remain", I'm not sure what will!!!
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2597_1613407166.jpg This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me.
WTRLC 2012 to 2014 "The wasted years"
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| Quote: newcat "Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove & Katie Hopkins are all in favour Brexit. If that doesn't convince you to vote to "Remain", I'm not sure what will!!!'"
I just look at my kids and grandkids and wonder what a crap hole the UK will become for them if we don't get out now. Vote exit for short term pain but long term gain.
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| Yes nearly as bad as Peter mandelson Tony Blair Ken Clarke Michael heseltine and Peter box for remain
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| Quote: roverman "Yes nearly as bad as Peter mandelson Tony Blair Ken Clarke Michael heseltine and Peter box for remain'"
Mandelson and Blair were the in the Government that in 1997 brought in improved rights for workers, and increased protection in relation to housing, health, education, social protection and welfare. We all benefit from that.
They may have cosied up to big business and Blair might have got us into a disastrous war but domestically at least they did more for working people than the likes of the current lot.
Clarke and Heseltine represent the moderate part of what is a very right wing Tory party. That they’re voices of moderation shows how extreme the others are. I’ve no idea who Peter Box is.
Unless you’re very wealthy indeed you’ve nothing to gain by voting Leave.
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| Quote: The Avenger "The subject is immigration and migration so why are you dragging other rules/laws/legislation or whatever else anyone wants to pick the semantics out of!'"
That's rather the point though isn't it - the subject is very definitely not just immigration; but the negative, dog-whistle campaigning of idiots like Farage have made it so; the debate should without question be about the wider issues of EU membership, which includes the rules, laws and regulations that you don't want to be dragged into the discussion - they're relevant, pertinent and particularly for working class people, almost always in favour of Remain.
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| Quote: bren2k "That's rather the point though isn't it - the subject is very definitely not just immigration; but the negative, dog-whistle campaigning of idiots like Farage have made it so; the debate should without question be about the wider issues of EU membership, which includes the rules, laws and regulations that you don't want to be dragged into the discussion - they're relevant, pertinent and particularly for working class people, almost always in favour of Remain.'"
If you read the thread properly the context of my comments and the responses to my comments were based around migration and immigration. No one was suggesting that the whole in/out EU topic was solely about immigration.
That's the problem with the 'in' campaigners, they want to paint those seeking to leave as simple minded and somehow ignorant of the wider issues. As I said at the end of my first post, because I dared to mention immigration you can conveniently dismiss me as a racist Farage following idiot. If it helps you win you're argument then carry on but more fool you!
The ' in' voters seem to think they have the mortgage on intelligence and freedom of thought while those wanting out are being brainwashed by Boris Johnson.
We all have a view and it's as valid and informed as anyone else's despite the condescending attempts to belittle anyone who wants out.
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| Quote: The Avenger "If you read the thread properly the context of my comments and the responses to my comments were based around migration and immigration. No one was suggesting that the whole in/out EU topic was solely about immigration.
That's the problem with the 'in' campaigners, they want to paint those seeking to leave as simple minded and somehow ignorant of the wider issues. As I said at the end of my first post, because I dared to mention immigration you can conveniently dismiss me as a racist Farage following idiot. If it helps you win you're argument then carry on but more fool you!
The ' in' voters seem to think they have the mortgage on intelligence and freedom of thought while those wanting out are being brainwashed by Boris Johnson.
We all have a view and it's as valid and informed as anyone else's despite the condescending attempts to belittle anyone who wants out.'"
To be clear - I wasn't labelling people who support Brexit as idiots; I was referring specifically to Farage and his ilk, who have deliberately made the debate about migration, when they know it's about much more than that.
My issue is with the whole process - I think both campaigns have been run in a very negative way, based on fear of what might happen, rather than facts about what will; it muddies the whole thing in my view.
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| Avenger - I come in peace but both sides are guilty.
"That's the problem with the 'in' campaigners, they want to paint those seeking to leave as simple minded and somehow ignorant of the wider issues."
This just isn't true any more than the assertion that all "Leavers" are racists. My gripe isn't with ordinary folk whose views differ to mine but with the politicians who, quite simply, lie. Both camps lie about the impact on the economy, on jobs, on the cost of living, house prices etc. But what infuriates and saddens me about the Brexit politicians is that they lie about immigration and in doing so they make intolerance and xenophobia acceptable. An example today. The net migration figure has gone up. Farage and company claim this is further evidence that we've lost control of our borders and should vote to leave. What they don't say is that immigration has actually gone down and the net figure is up because emigration has also gone down but by a bit more. They also don't mention that the two biggest contributors to inwards migration are India and China - nothing to do with EU. It's this kind of lying / economy with the truth that Dismays and worries me. It is creating an intolerant, fearful, suspicious country where morons from the EDL, Britain First, BNP etc feel free to spout their hate filled bile. I don't think the EU is perfect - far from it. But I do think that, by being in it, we can help to change it to make it a better place for all its citizens. Leave and we're at the mercy of the people who want our country to be insular, inward looking and narrow minded.
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| Quote: Kevs Head "Avenger - I come in peace but both sides are guilty.
"That's the problem with the 'in' campaigners, they want to paint those seeking to leave as simple minded and somehow ignorant of the wider issues."
This just isn't true any more than the assertion that all "Leavers" are racists. My gripe isn't with ordinary folk whose views differ to mine but with the politicians who, quite simply, lie. Both camps lie about the impact on the economy, on jobs, on the cost of living, house prices etc. But what infuriates and saddens me about the Brexit politicians is that they lie about immigration and in doing so they make intolerance and xenophobia acceptable. An example today. The net migration figure has gone up. Farage and company claim this is further evidence that we've lost control of our borders and should vote to leave. What they don't say is that immigration has actually gone down and the net figure is up because emigration has also gone down but by a bit more. They also don't mention that the two biggest contributors to inwards migration are India and China - nothing to do with EU. It's this kind of lying / economy with the truth that Dismays and worries me. It is creating an intolerant, fearful, suspicious country where morons from the EDL, Britain First, BNP etc feel free to spout their hate filled bile. I don't think the EU is perfect - far from it. But I do think that, by being in it, we can help to change it to make it a better place for all its citizens. Leave and we're at the mercy of the people who want our country to be insular, inward looking and narrow minded.'"
Understood, but doesn't David Cameron saying that the UK leaving the EU could destabilise Europe and increase the risk of a 3rd World War bother you?
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