FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > O/T Not going as smooth as they'd like for Cas Stadium |
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39793_1491679334.jpg "Castleford's biggest home crowd of the 1991-1992 season wasn't quite 12,000 while on average they'd sit around 6000 but the noise, the chanting and the singing just blows you away" - Tawera Nikau "Standing Tall"
"I can tell you the atmosphere was extraordinary at Wheldon Road on big days. The ground held around 15,000 people, every one of them close to the action on the field and the noise would be enough to send a rumble through the town" - Malcolm Reilly "Reilly - A Life in Rugby League":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39793.jpg |
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| Quote: wakeyrule "If we did that the RFL would say 'Seeing as you're such good friends, you can share a franchise!'. Sorry IA, normally I think you talk a lot of common sense, but the last thing Wakey and Cas should do is bury their (hopefully good natured) rivalry! The RFL don't seem to be paying any attention to their customers because they have moved too far from the game into their own corporate utopia where the true nature and spirit of OUR game matters nothing unless there are swish facilities. Style over substance - Camerons Britain! (Although he's just carrying on where Thatcher left off).'"
Edited for accuracy
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| I appreciate where you're coming from and if Wakefield were to enter an agreement under the terms you outline then it would be tough to make ends meet but not impossible.
AG would no doubt have to consider whether the long term benefits were sufficient to justify any financial input by Spirit of 1873 Group.
Having said that the worst case scenario you portray isn't necessarily the one we will find ourselves in.
Stadiums can be re-dressed from game to game and I have first hand experience of this being done for much higher profile events than a Super League/Championship game.
Wakefield may well agree to share the revenue from bars etc with Barnsley FC who without Wakefield as a tenant would be getting 100% of nothing.
We may also lose some home support but equally we might pick some up, one thing that holds our attendances back is the state of Belle Vue. Visiting support often travels in smaller number due to the lack of cover, facilities and amenities. Oakwell would be a lot more inviting and would have a novelty attraction as well.
It's also reported that staging a game at Belle Vue is just as expensive as the proposed rent at Barnsley.
Given that we can now spend up to the full cap, when in previous years we've been somewhere round 50%, it's likely that the team on the pitch would be more attractive and more competitive which would naturally lead to higher attendances.
Now I might be as guilty of picturing a Rose tinted situation as you were in stating the worst but IMO Oakwell is doable in the short-term.
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| Quote: bigalf "Edited for accuracy
Can't even bring myself to write that witches name, let alone speak it!
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| Quote: Hatfield tiger "The idea that Wakefield could some how pay the rent at Oakwell and have a commercially viable business is crazy.<snip>'"
If TR was still in charge, I would share your concern that we were blundering into an arrangement without a fully costed business plan; we're being run properly now though, and it's equally crazy to think that someone with Mr Glovers credentials would take us to Oakwell if it was the road to ruin.
Wanting something to be true doesn't make it so.
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12205_1307822450.png [img:32iwt8q2]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/fullyitfc/cas-4-1.jpg[/img:32iwt8q2]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12205.png |
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| Quote: bren2k "If only planning decisions were that simple; when it comes to travel & transport issues, they don't base their decisions on what people can or should do, they base them on what people actually do, and they infer knowledge about what people actually do using some fairly arcane methodology.
I've just had to pay a specialist consultant a considerable sum of money to produce a travel plan for a development I'm in involved in, to demonstrate to the WMDC Highways bods the number of vehicular journeys the development will attract when it's complete. I know already, because I run 13 sites with similar developments in other parts of the country, but my simple logic didn't even come close to satisfying the Highways Depts' requirements.'"
Oh yeah, I know that. However, on the other hand, is it fair to say that the same could be said of Xscape just assuming that everyone will drive?
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12205_1307822450.png [img:32iwt8q2]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/fullyitfc/cas-4-1.jpg[/img:32iwt8q2]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12205.png |
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| Quote: dids858 "Maybe you should check your fact first.
Trains are every TWO hours from Leeds on a Sunday.
I do apologise. The likelihood, however, is that not every home game is going to be played on a Sunday and so my point is also valid.
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12205_1307822450.png [img:32iwt8q2]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/fullyitfc/cas-4-1.jpg[/img:32iwt8q2]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12205.png |
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| And after briefly skimming the other stuff - a lot of which is ifs, buts and maybes - if Wakefield move to Oakwell (I believe this is based on gaining a licence anyway), what is to stop Cas coming out and doing the same with say Doncaster? The idea that you're simply going to be ahead can be swiftly cancelled out and so it renders it pointless.
With regards to the licence itself, the stadium is just one part of it and clubs will be adjudged on other areas too. Whilst stadia is one area, finance, community, media, marketing, sponsorship, youth academy, on the field performance etc etc are all other facets. It would be remiss of us to start comparing clubs and 'willy waving' regarding the licence on this thread considering things have gone so smoothly at the moment without any bitching.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge, however, I guess that the RFL will be aware of the club's situation and the financial climate and will recognise that the club - to be competitive from 2012 onwards - has to be in the strongest position it can be. Selling it's MAJOR asset for a cheap price is rubbish business sense. Whilst fans will understandably be frustrated at any delay - getting the right price is key. After all you only get one shot at building a stadium!
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| I wasn't suggesting that just moving to Oakwell would put Trinity ahead, what I was saying is,if Cas are unable to begin building for two years and Wakefield get a positive decision from the PI in the next 12 months then Wakefield, with Full Funding secured, would be ahead.
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12205_1307822450.png [img:32iwt8q2]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/fullyitfc/cas-4-1.jpg[/img:32iwt8q2]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12205.png |
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| Quote: The Clan "I wasn't suggesting that just moving to Oakwell would put Trinity ahead, what I was saying is,if Cas are unable to begin building for two years and Wakefield get a positive decision from the PI in the next 12 months then Wakefield, with Full Funding secured, would be ahead.'"
I wasn't really referring to you mate - I was reading from two pages back or so.
You've got to apply for Reserved Matters too after the PI.
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| Theres a cas fan at our place who as always said cas have no money to build a new ground apparently there is 4 charges on wheldon Road to be paid off even when it is sold. It got me thinking how many RL clubs have been able to fund a stadium build themselves. Widnes council leigh council hull council Wigan football Warrington tesco and council help. Thats why were in a good position with Newmarket with funding all in place just need PP PLEASE.
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| Quote: Fully "I wasn't really referring to you mate - I was reading from two pages back or so.
You've got to apply for Reserved Matters too after the PI.'"
I beleive that FPP will be fired straight in within a matter of weeks of getting the nod, obviously after any required changes or alterations to the plans.
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31007_1580947500.jpg EVENTUALLY, WE'LL WIN SOMETHING, ,MAYBE, IF I'M STILL ALIVE THEN:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_31007.jpg |
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| I thought braytontiger's summary was a good, honest appraisal, outlining the downsides and as well as the up.
Cas have got a lot more to be optimistic about in the short term, in that we have had a stinker of an off-season and Cas will be a lot stronger on the pitch (and I would prefer it if that's where things were decided). I think, however, we have a lot more to be optimistic about in the longer term, in that we are likely to be in a new stadium first and we have a new owner who seems keen to change things. The issue is whether the RFL will be swayed by how things look right now.
The move to Oakwell will tick a lot of boxes. Cas could just move out of Wheldon Road, but that still wouldn't bring the new ground any closer, and the lack of funding might still cause them problems.
Of course, the RFL could make it a lot easier for themselves and boot us both out, on the basis that neither of us have fulfilled our promises to be in new grounds, and shove Widnes and Halifax in. That way, lots of shiny new seats and the Championship has lots of lovely derbies to keep the crowds up.
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23909.gif 'That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party.... So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin':23909.gif |
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| Quote: wakeyrule "Can't even bring myself to write that witches name, let alone speak it!
I've got a bottle of champagne in the pantry ready for when her clogs finally pop
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| Quote: Fully "And after briefly skimming the other stuff - a lot of which is ifs, buts and maybes - if Wakefield move to Oakwell (I believe this is based on gaining a licence anyway), what is to stop Cas coming out and doing the same with say Doncaster? The idea that you're simply going to be ahead can be swiftly cancelled out and so it renders it pointless.
With regards to the licence itself, the stadium is just one part of it and clubs will be adjudged on other areas too. Whilst stadia is one area, finance, community, media, marketing, sponsorship, youth academy, on the field performance etc etc are all other facets. It would be remiss of us to start comparing clubs and 'willy waving' regarding the licence on this thread considering things have gone so smoothly at the moment without any bitching.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge, however, I guess that the RFL will be aware of the club's situation and the financial climate and will recognise that the club - to be competitive from 2012 onwards - has to be in the strongest position it can be. Selling it's MAJOR asset for a cheap price is rubbish business sense. Whilst fans will understandably be frustrated at any delay - getting the right price is key. After all you only get one shot at building a stadium!'"
Do you think, if it came to it, a temporary move to Donny for Cas, would it work? The distance from Cas, 20 miles is a long way, it would be like us using Hillsborough . I know some people have said the same about Oakwell, but that's only 10 miles.
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| Quote: braytontiger "
4) There will be a major announcement in the next 2-3 weeks which will set everybody's mind at rest (no panicking yet please).
'"
Looking back over your summary of Castlefords meeting this one intrigues me!
2-3 weeks from now takes us to the RFLs announcement of who is coming up from the Championship.
Stay with me here,
Richard Wright announces the bombshell news that Cas don't have the money to build their stadium and that they won't be in a position to move forward for at least the remainder of 2011.
After all the film flam what's changed so radically that RW feels comfortable enough to smash the facade that he's so carefully crafted?
He then suggests a major announcement is due which should alleviate any fears for the future of Castleford in SL.
What could that announcement possibly be?
Given that the RFL won't be announcing which SL club is to be demoted till July what could this mystery announcement be that it can put Castlefords supporters fears to bed?
The one and only thing I can think of is that the RFL will announce that no one is being demoted when it announces that Widnes & Halifax are coming up.
Think about it, if that's the decision that the RFL have come to it makes sense to announce it asap in order to allow all clubs the chance to stabilise themselves and to protect the integrity of this years SL competition.
Food for thought?
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