Agreed on that one. I was just applying logic to the 30k figure and I did admit not knowing.

That makes a change.



Oh dear!

CTSC meeting update:

1) We are looking at signings for next years team and will be dealing with players coming out of contract soon (they are on with Chubbs)

2) The ground should get FPP probably in the council meeting mid to late April (was going to be early April but with the xscape parking issue, it'll have to be put back - but no issues we are proving the amount we need to)

3) We will not be starting the build probably this year due to financial restraints, the ground old sale is causing this. We are trying to get a better price so that we can go forward into the new stadium carrying no massive debts and thus look after the club for the future.

4) There will be a major announcement in the next 2-3 weeks which will set everybody's mind at rest (no panicking yet please)

5) The licence application will be submitted and it has 2 parts, situation now with crowds, money, ground etc... But also future planning for the next application period. This will mean that it will be looked at in regards the stadium being built (the information we put in will be looked at by a seperate company brought in by the RFL, so it cannot be a bag of lies (Thornes park anyone?) it must be solid facts with finance in place, clubs have to have FPP at least also)

6) The club are looking for advice/help in regards to new media and how to harness it. So anybody who can help with Facebook, twitter and the like get in touch.

7) Mr Nahaboo is getting really behind Cas and we are trying to involve him more. The RFL like the man and he backs CAS. We are trying to get him to more games as he is raising our profile.

8 ) The club are rightly a bit concerned about the Crusaders match and hope fans can stop any problems (it takes only a mindless few to give us a licence headache)

9) The floodlight problem was not just bulbs but the controller at the base, this has been fixed at a considerable cost ( please bring suncream and shades on Saturday nite!)

10) It was asked what we are doing in regards a new coach for next term as TM has stated in the press he wants to return home, well it is assured we will have the best coach available to take us further.

11) Pro-ground letters/e-mails need to be sent to the council before the end of March.

Well thats as much as I can remember, nothing controversial or mind blowing. But remember point 4!!!

not my words but some food for thought from last nights supports club meeting.

If I were a Cas fan No.3 would cause me to lose sleep!

If Castleford don't start construction within the 1st qtr of 2012 they won't be out of Wheldon Rd for the start of the 2013 season either.

There's no indication from the BoD at Cas as to when they will have the finances together and if they're waiting for the economy to recover before selling WR they might not start to build the new stadium for 2 or 3 years yet.

If that were the case and with Wakefield moving to Oakwell and with a decision from the PI expected to be under 12 months away that would move Wakefield ahead of Cas IMO.

If the RFL via their independent auditors, take the view that Castlefords new stadium is at least 2 years away they may favour Trinity at Oakwell over Cas at WR.

its open to interpretation,my take on it is that in november this year the current sale with ben bailey homes is nill and void and leaves the club open to get a better price than the original deal.this isnt new news and ever since newmarket was put back this was on the agenda from cas has the need to build has quickly diminished giving the club time rather than rushing things for the sake of it.

the part where it states that only clubs with fpp accepted will be able to use it has part of their franchise application is the most interesting bit and that answers why cas put in fpp now when their not ready to construct until 2012.that kind of ticks a box that wakefield cannot and is a very shrewd move imo.

I hear what you are saying but having plans and having the money to build are miles apart, IMO the RFL know we have funds and when we get permission we will build. So we both have "half the deal" and one without the others useless.

Anyway we'll see how it all pans out brayton.

But Ben Bailey Homes is a business. If the value of WR is potentially more than the deal they have in place - they will see the deal through and pocket the difference themselves. If the value of WR is worth less than the deal they have - they will walk away from it, including any deposit paid.

Of course the other option is that the value of the land does increase and BBH don't have the cash to stump up for it, or they feel that PP is so far down the line that it's not worth tying the cash up - which is the only case where I can see Cas being better off than they are now, and even then, the timescales involved may not be in their favour.

It's all still a long way from settled!

Why has the need to build quickly diminished?

the RFLs options may be Castleford at WR for at least 2 years of the next franchise period and no guarantee of that it won't be the whole 3 years.
or
Wakefield at Oakwell for the full 3 years with the possibility that it could be less with Newmarket maybe being ready for late 2013 or 2014.

Castleford are ahead of Wakefield or so it seems but if Richard Wright can't get the build coming out of the ground within the next two years Wakefield, under new financially sound ownership, are likely to race past them.

I am glad that RW has come out and said what the Yorkshire construction rumour mill has be saying for some time, Castleford don't yet have the finances to build at GH. The sale of Wheldon Road is the key finance deal that will see Castleford able to start and probably fully complete the wonderful new stadium at GH.

Now, the real issue here is that the bloody RFL need to put a stop to all the animosity, resentment and fear that the whole of the current license process is creating, especially between Wakefield and Cas fans. This constant arguing and bickering between Cas and Wakey fans is wasting too much energy and putting great divides into this great close-knit game of OURS!

I have a very serious proposition for all the Cas and Wakey fans... this wonderful energy has now to be put into coming together and taking the fight to the RL. The time for arguing amongst each other is over... NOW is the time to tell the RFL as a united voice that they have to keep both clubs in SL for the next three years and even that you both sign a deal saying that if either one of you are not playing in a brand new stadium by the start of the next franchise application then you forfeit the right to even apply. Admit Widnes, yes, but don't kick anyone out!

The reasons Cas and Wakey are struggling is more due the economic crisis than any other reason and RW admission about GH should send this message loud and clear to the RFL.

If there was ever a time to come together as one and fight, then this has to be it.

Can it be done... I, as a Rhinos supporter, hope it can.

The challenge is yours... are you guys up for it?

Just listened to aRL podcast that my son did on the William Hill radio and Barry McDermott made an interesting point about another SL club who were experiencing difficulties and he put the question why not merge and hopefully product one strong team. Don't shoot the messenger here as I'm only passing on what they said but from what they inferred the team can't be based too far away from us unless it's another Hull/Gateshead situation . And of course Barry M may have been given duff info. They also said they had a soft spot for Wakefield. I get the feeling that the majority of SL fans don't want either Wakey or Cas to go out of SL.

If we did that the RFL would say 'Seeing as you're such good friends, you can share a franchise!'. Sorry IA, normally I think you talk a lot of common sense, but the last thing Wakey and Cas should do is bury their (hopefully good natured) rivalry! The RFL don't seem to be paying any attention to their customers because they have moved too far from the game into their own corporate utopia where the true nature and spirit of OUR game matters nothing unless there are swish facilities. Style over substance - Camerons Britain! (Although he's just carrying on where Blair left off).

The idea that Wakefield could some how pay the rent at Oakwell and have a commercially viable business is crazy.

Remember that it is not simply the rent that you would have to pay. Revenue derived from bar sales advertising food sales and corporate hospitality would disappear.

Sponshorship with in the ground would be Barnsleys. You would loss all advertising rights in the new ground

Bar and food is normally franchised out to a seperate company who inturn pay the owners of the ground a commission for doing this. Barnsley get the income.

Any restuarant sales are also collected by the owner of the ground - you just wont have to pay for the services provided.

That leaves you with 4 revenue sources.

1 Gate receipts - As St helens are currently experiencing gates fall if you move away from your local fan base. last year Saints had a high percentage of games being close to a full house of 17k. This years attendance at the begining of the season are 10k. Plus they have a winning team which attracts more fans supposedly.

2 - Corporate advertising on shirts etc - probably unaffected

3 - Merchandise - on the assumption gates fall it is likley so will sales of products normally purcahsed by fans at games.

4 - Sky cash - this will be roughly in line with current income

Generally speaking clubs expect to make losses on stadium moves - they can do it for a season but at a cost.

Think about it in this sense. Barnsley wont provide the facilities at cost they will charge a mark up. This will invariably be at a greater cost to the club moving than running it out of the original staduim.

Plus you loss any secondary income i.e. not via gate receipts.

Question can Wakefield really afford to move given that attendances currently are not showing any huge signs of improvement?

This throws into question the viability of saying that barnsley is actually possible which is the fundemental logic behind giving Wakefield a new franchise. Yes a good stadium but again a completely flawed business plan.

If it is so easy and commercially viable why dont cas just say - we will move to Doncaster?

This would counter any move by Wakefield moving to Barnsley. Its not viable!!!

Edited for accuracy

I appreciate where you're coming from and if Wakefield were to enter an agreement under the terms you outline then it would be tough to make ends meet but not impossible.

AG would no doubt have to consider whether the long term benefits were sufficient to justify any financial input by Spirit of 1873 Group.

Having said that the worst case scenario you portray isn't necessarily the one we will find ourselves in.

Stadiums can be re-dressed from game to game and I have first hand experience of this being done for much higher profile events than a Super League/Championship game.

Wakefield may well agree to share the revenue from bars etc with Barnsley FC who without Wakefield as a tenant would be getting 100% of nothing.

We may also lose some home support but equally we might pick some up, one thing that holds our attendances back is the state of Belle Vue. Visiting support often travels in smaller number due to the lack of cover, facilities and amenities. Oakwell would be a lot more inviting and would have a novelty attraction as well.

It's also reported that staging a game at Belle Vue is just as expensive as the proposed rent at Barnsley.

Given that we can now spend up to the full cap, when in previous years we've been somewhere round 50%, it's likely that the team on the pitch would be more attractive and more competitive which would naturally lead to higher attendances.

Now I might be as guilty of picturing a Rose tinted situation as you were in stating the worst but IMO Oakwell is doable in the short-term.