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FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > £500k supporters trust = only 50% ownership?
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It's my opinion that we should continue to fight for our super league status to the very last second, we fought really hard to win promotion into this division and even then we have to kick the door down to obtain access. Once in, we had to operate without super league funding for a period of time and have then battled against the odds to retain our place.

There are no guarantees!
If we drop a division and then over the next three years we win grand finals, get the new stadium built, create a solid financial foundation and tick all the other boxes we may still be denied a super league franchise in 2015 because of the geographical location of the club.

It's my suspicion that this is what was said to the potential investor who walked away after his meeting with the Rugby football league.

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[sizeFaith Hope and Trinity[/size

In the absence of all the relevant details, which have quite reasonably been requested by a number of the club's supporters on this forum, it might help to try and summarise what we do know and what we can confirm as fact.

The shareholding offer, whilst publicised by the club will not be controlled by the club and neither will the money

Investments/donations will be paid into an ESCROW account which is secure from access by anyone from the club, the board of directors etc

Andrew Wright & Co, while acting as the club's solicitors are not under the employ of the club or the board of directors. They are a long-established firm of accountants whose impartiality in this matter can be relied upon

Any money paid into the ESCROW account will be refundable to each and every investor until such a time as the new shareholders decide how best to use the funds for the benefit of the club. That decision could be a number of things but the most likely areOUR club be torn apart

Ted has indicated publicly that, in the event that the £500,000 is raised, he will transfer his shares probably to the Supporters Trust

Finally!
please do not see this as a mechanism to bail out the current board of directors
Change at the top is now an inevitability, either through a positive outcome of the shareholding or because of Administration!
[sizeDo you want to have a say![/size

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I think the options are more limited than that. There are two options available:
1. Monies raised are used to pay off HMRC.
2. It isn't and we go bust.

In relation to option 2, that is when the other choices kick in;ie, do people want their money back or is it used as a fighting fund for the new company.

In relation to the first option, and this is where the lack of information is frustrating, the worry is that we save the club on 31st January but then get another big bill on 31st July, we have no money to pay it, and we go bust. No 500k fighting fund for the new company.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "I think the options are more limited than that. There are two options available

before we go to the supporters trust meeting on the 18th we hope to fill some of the information gaps and get some assurances about the club's position going forward

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Quote: The Clan "It's my opinion that we should continue to fight for our super league status to the very last second, we fought really hard to win promotion into this division and even then we have to kick the door down to obtain access. Once in, we had to operate without super league funding for a period of time and have then battled against the odds to retain our place.
There are no guarantees!
If we drop a division and then over the next three years we win grand finals, get the new stadium built, create a solid financial foundation and tick all the other boxes we may still be denied a super league franchise in 2015 because of the geographical location of the club.

It's my suspicion that this is what was said to the potential investor who walked away after his meeting with the Rugby football league.'"


Thats my view on this, i can see the other side of the coin but we should fight for what we have earned, you have my full support Clan.

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Quote: The Clan "It's my opinion that we should continue to fight for our super league status to the very last second, we fought really hard to win promotion into this division and even then we have to kick the door down to obtain access. Once in, we had to operate without super league funding for a period of time and have then battled against the odds to retain our place.

There are no guarantees!
If we drop a division and then over the next three years we win grand finals, get the new stadium built, create a solid financial foundation and tick all the other boxes we may still be denied a super league franchise in 2015 because of the geographical location of the club.

It's my suspicion that this is what was said to the potential investor who walked away after his meeting with the Rugby football league.'"


if ted walks away and transfers his shares,ive been told that he would stll be entitled to the rest of the ground money,leaving us in a state like crystal palace were under ron noads and mark goldberg

are we as fans allowed to speak with the rfl and ask them what is going on. you cant play against a stacked deck

what are the fans ambitions. mine is to play in the top flight but not at the expence of the club, if we cant generate enough income to compete then what is the point in carrying on like this.

is there enough money to pay the players and staff at the end of the month.

J.T
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Without answers to the many questions being asked we are going in totally blind. No point putting any money in until we know exactly what we are dealing with.

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Quote: J.T "Without answers to the many questions being asked we are going in totally blind. No point putting any money in until we know exactly what we are dealing with.'"

i agree jt no one wants to answer any and imo this is just the tip of the ice berg.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "Here's a thought.

If we accept the reality that the RFL are not going to give us a franchise, we will be a National League side next year. In which case, wouldn't £500K be much better put behind a National League team. It would go a lot further, might help us win something (which we have to do to get back into the top flight again), by which time hopefully Newmarket will be sorted and the future will look brighter.

So is the solution to go into administration, drop down, get a fighting fund for down there and so do more with it?

Perhaps someone with knowledge of company law can provide some info though, because my understanding of the Crusaders situation is that they went into administration, which of itself doesn't cleanse the debts, I think. All it does, I think, is ring-fence the assets as the administrator tries to come to agreements with creditors to sort out the debts. The Crusaders company then went bust (which is different to administration), and the new Crusaders company was set up in its place. In our case, would administration work, ie, the HMRC is not going to go away, and so we would have to do what the Crusaders did, and go bust and restart as a new limited company. But the principal asset related to our club, Belle Vue, is owned by someone else, with a payment pending on that, and so how would that work? The new club would not be allowed to say "give the money to us instead", I assume, as the money would be payable to the old company, not the new one.

What I'm trying to get round to is what would happen to Belle Vue? Would the buyer get it by default and we would have to come to a rental arrangement, and did the Crusaders avoid the tax and old debts not by going into administration, but by going bust?'"


While I work in corporate finance, I'm not an insolvency practitioner but will try to clarify things a bit to the best of my understanding.

You're correct in saying that in the event that WTRLFC Limited went into Administration, the assets will be fall under the control of the Administrator who will try to raise as much cash as possible from them while trying to sell the business as a going concern.

BV was an asset of WTRLFC Ltd before being sold to Cala Homes, and there is now an amount sitting on the company balance sheet as a debtor to WTRLFC Ltd that form part of the assets. The Administrator would look to realise as much of the outstanding money as possible, but as Cala would be paying this ahead of the contracted date they may be able to negotiate a lower amount (which would be a benefit to them).

I'm not sure how the £350k we were expecting from Yorkcourt would be treated as technically it doesn't become due (and therefore an asset to WTRLFC Ltd) until planning permission is granted.

The Administrator will also contact all creditors of WTRLFC Ltd asking them to provide confirmation of any monies due to them.

Once the Administrator has been able to establish how much can be raised from the assets to pay the liabilities, they will call a meeting of the creditors who will be told how much of their debt will be repaid. If this is accepted by the creditors a CVA will be drawn up to formalise the proposals. The order of priority for repayment of debts is i) secured creditors (i.e. the Bank) ii) unsecured creditors (e.g. HMRC, suppliers, wages, season ticket holders) & iii) the shareholders. The shareholders are unlikely to see any money unless the secured & unsecured crediors are repaid in full.

If the Administrator is able to find someone willing to buy the business as a going concern, this would normally be done through a Newco (e.g. WTRLFC 2011 Ltd). It's often the case that the CVA would also include payments over a period from Newco as the assets of the business that went into Administration is not enough to cover the liabilities. In WT's case, this MAY not be required if enough money can be realised from Cala Homes to clear the outstanding liabilities.

I know that you may now be wondering why the club doesn't negotiate with Cala now - the simple answer is that Cala probably don't have to pay us any more money until we have left BV and they have a contract to that effect. They already own the site & it's in their best interest to wait as late as possible before paying us any more money.

I would expect that anyoone buying the business from the Administrator would also be able to negotiate a certain amount of cash to be included in the deal as they will almost certainly need to honour the value of the season tickets that have been sold.

If funds do end up being passed back to the shareholders by the Administrators (and this would be split equally dependant on individual shareholdings) it is then up to them individually what they wish to do with that money. I suspect that many minority shareholders would be happy to see this money being passed to the new business running the club as we are fans, but given that Ted has entered an IVA he may well have to use any money that comes his way in respect of those debts.

At the moment, it seems to me that we will follow one of two paths. Either, £500k will be raised before the end of the month which will see the existing BoD stand down (albeit that some may wish to stand for re-election), Ted will transfer his (whole???) shareholding to some form of trust (which I would expect would be controlled by those who raised the £500k), we continue through the 2011 season with a chance of retaining our SL franchise for 2012-15 and we get the full benefit of future money paid by Cala Homes.

OR we can't raise £500k, the club enters administration in early February, a Newco takes over the running of the club (hopefully) who won't benefit from future money due from Cala Homes (as it will have been paid at a lower amount to help clear the liabilities upon entering Administration) and we play through the coming season knowing that we will not be in SL next year.

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some may wish to stand for re election, have you lot gone completly mad.

RDM
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Quote: MOPSEY LIVES ON "if ted walks away and transfers his shares,ive been told that he would stll be entitled to the rest of the ground money,leaving us in a state like crystal palace were under ron noads and mark goldberg

are we as fans allowed to speak with the rfl and ask them what is going on. you cant play against a stacked deck

what are the fans ambitions. mine is to play in the top flight but not at the expence of the club, if we cant generate enough income to compete then what is the point in carrying on like this.

is there enough money to pay the players and staff at the end of the month.'"


BV was an asset of the club and therefore outstanding payments are due to the club (unless we go into Administration - see my previous post). Ted cannot receive money from the club unless it is either part of any remuneration package previously agreed by the BoD OR the club make a dividend payment. If the club makes a dividend payment, it must be made from reserves that are available for such payments AND must be made on an equal basis to ALL shareholders.

In short - Ted won't be seeing a penny of the money for the sale of BV.

We can try speaking to the RFL, but given that getting info out of the club is difficult I doubt we'll get any answers out of the RFL.

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Quote: MOPSEY LIVES ON "if ted walks away and transfers his shares,ive been told that he would stll be entitled to the rest of the ground money,leaving us in a state like crystal palace were under ron noads and mark goldberg

'"


Well you've been told wrong Mopsey

The ground belongs to Wakefield Trinity RLFC - end of!

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Quote: Catwoman1 "Well you've been told wrong Mopsey

The ground belongs to Wakefield Trinity RLFC - end of!'"

a010.gif icon_kiss.gif icon_heartkiss.gif

J.T
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Quote: RDM "

At the moment, it seems to me that we will follow one of two paths. Either, £500k will be raised before the end of the month which will see the existing BoD stand down (albeit that some may wish to stand for re-election), Ted will transfer his (whole???) shareholding to some form of trust (which I would expect would be controlled by those who raised the £500k), we continue through the 2011 season with a chance of retaining our SL franchise for 2012-15 and we get the full benefit of future money paid by Cala Homes.
'"


But the big question is will the 500k get us through the season? Will it get swallowed up just like all the other money has done? I keep thinking about all the cut backs we have made, the player sales, the sale of Belle Vue, the loan from Sir Rodney and we still owe more. Who has come up with the figure of 500k? I guess it's the board if so who has any faith in their maths?

RDM
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Quote: MOPSEY LIVES ON "some may wish to stand for re election, have you lot gone completly mad.'"


Not at all - was suggested on another thread yesterday evening. I'm not saying that I know that it will happen, but they have as much right to put themselves forward to shareholders for election as directors as you or I have.

If they put themselves forward, it's up to the shareholders to elect the new BoD as they see fit.

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