Not expecting Kershaw or Kay to be T J far from it . But I do not expect them to put there team under pressure by making basics mistakes When Hampshire had to play on the wing he never looked out of place ,infact won us a few games .Can not say the same about Kay or Kershaw at present

I agree about Chester now, but he should have been relieved of his duties in the off season. I have no problems with the players effort and attitude this season so far, it has been much improved, but when I say they are underperforming I mean they can play better, less errors, better decision making, being ruthless, better discipline, for me none of that has improved yet! Most of the few tries we have scored this season have been individual efforts, we create very little as a unit, we just offer very little threat with ball in hand, and that has to come down to the coach(es)

The next 4 games are massive, and are going to give us some indication of how things are going to unfold later on, and because we are so poor with the ball, i'm worried! We are in a hole and that digging out process has to start against Leeds, who are themselves going to be nervous and under pressure, let's see what we have to offer.......

Are you suggesting finding the average finishing position from the last 55 seasons is somehow cherry picking data?
Choosing the last two years, or even worse 20% of the current season, is truly cherry picking and hugely biased.

My point was that in my lifetime we have generally been the 10th best team in the competition. Even if your take the median to remove any outliers, your still get 10th, the mode is also 10.

The last 2 seasons we had 5/19 and 11/29 wins giving 16/48 or 33% win rate. Compare this to 2015/2014 where we had 3/23 and 10/27 making 13/50 or 26% win rate. so no, the last 2 seasons have not been the worst in the modern era.

When I get some time I'll maybe complete the data back to the beginning of RL, but I wouldn't expect any big changes.

Upshot is, we have been consistently the 10th best team in the northern hemisphere and anything above that is a bonus. Having only 12 teams in the top flight puts us in jeopardy and fundamental change will be required to get us above that lowly average.

There you go data from 1895 to present:



The red line is a 5-year rolling average - currently the best we've been since the 70s.
Green dots are lower division
Yellow dots are Yorkshire league only
Orange dots are wartime emergency league
We've only finished top once (1944 wartime emergency league)
Our most successful decade was of course 1959 to 1968 (cherry picked) with an average position of 4.1, coming 2nd three times but winning the championship twice (via play-offs)


Guess what - average league position over 126 years:
mean = 11.0, mode = 10.0, median = 10.0

(I've been generous and included Yorkshire league placings even though there were effectively 2 pools)

Nicely done there. That's a brilliant set of data. Saved a copy

I agree

When he gets a job for a top club please let us know

Coco you can churn out all the data you want from the very beginning if you want but that only tells half a story .The players we have at our disposal are far better equipped to produce a much better standard of rugby than ever their predecessors were .Diet ,fitness ,conditioning,full time ,and yet what I see is a team lacking at times the very basic core skills of RL, which is seen all over the north on a weekend from professional to amateur . If people are happy to see players week in week out making silly unforced errors and blame it on them been of poor quality ,get out and watch some amateur games and see the quality they produce on a regular basis . I truly hope we pull through this ,but to put the blame squarely on our supposedly average players and not to a big part on the coaching set up truly baffles me .

The problem is, so are everyone else's.

The problem is wollo as I see it ,we have, when injuries permit one of the most settled squads in super league, with one incoming ,but to watch them Play they look like a squad that has been thrown together . I get that we aren’t going to match the big boys on a regular basis ,but we’ll never get near if we don’t at least aspire to be like them .I don’t knock my home town team lightly but even the most conservative of us must see we aren’t playing to our potential and have not been for quite some time . My memory is not what it used to be but I can’t remember a time when I’ve seen our team make so many unforced errors and attack so poorly . I hope it’s just a confidence thing and we get back on the horse real soon ,as the games are passing us by and I fear for the club if it ends up being a shoot out at the end .

Got to admit we got the Players (,apart from a 9) but the way we have been Coached over the last 2 year Think we would struggle to be in the top 4 of the championship .Some thing as got to change

But the players that other teams have are also better equipped and in most cases training in much better facilities than we are.
That's not me making excuses for our team, as I do think that there are some very basic elements that we are not doing right but you can't expect us to suddenly change the long term averages because the payers are now full-time and better equipped without looking at how other teams have also improved their standards.

So teams like cas have better facilities than us sorry carnt accept that as a reason.

Ask yourself this, do you ever think before you post.

We have two internationals and a player who not so long ago was the best prop in SL. We have also been in SL for twenty years.

There is nothing comical about it we should be way above Leigh. We are not. I’m not laughing.

CC biggest problem is that Lady Luck has not just deserted him but is now spitting in his face.

He may not be a good enough coach to lead us to the promised land but any reasonable person would admit that with a bit of luck he’d look a lot safer than he does now.

Unless his luck changes he has to be sacked. Not his fault and it’s brutal but that is the nature of the game.

The difference on here is that most want his luck to change and would be happy to see him stay, I’m one.

Others just want to be proved right and would be distraught if the lad turned it around.

These people hide behind the I only say it because I love the club, they don’t they are just unpleasant individuals in my opinion.

He has been lucky because at any other club he would have been relieved of his duties a long time ago. I want the team to win and thrive however I do not believe Chester is the coach to do it. It does not make me any less a supporter because I think the answer is to replace whilst others want the status quo to continue in the hope we finally reach that corner.

Right on cue the exact type of person I was referring to. You never fail to show yourself up.

I don't think you really believe this statement yourself, vasty. The posts against CC seem to outweigh the "for" posts considerably.
An additional X on Thursdays ballot sheet would illustrate this point, I'm sure.

Vasty, I am rooting for Chester to turn it around, I really am, I don`t think it will happen but it might.

That said, even if he does, I still think that it`s time for a change for the club regardless of how this season goes, we have been talking about a long term strategy/direction for the last 5 years and we have actually gone backwards.

On the basis of pre and aftermatch interviews, to me, even CC doesn't seem to have the confidence or belief that he can turn it around.

I've just been listening to the DABV pod cast with Jason Demetriou and the 2006 season. For those last 6 games, they was an absolute refusal that all the squad bought into that relegation was not an option, that it wasn't going to happen on their watch, and it bloody well showed. The squad was the same squad that had been performing well under par all season and a change was the catalyst to resolve that mindset and drive the players on.

I can't shake the feeling that there is an air of inevitability at the club that we are heading in one direction, and it's not upwards. Even if we survive this year, we're staring down the same barrel next season

He has been unlucky with injuries i agree although if the season continues with injuries can 3 years of injuries all be down to luck...but other things isnt all bad luck like recruitment and retentions these have been poor really poor example bishop( yes he was offered deal but not as good contract)leaviing but resigning of kershaw and the signing of kaye..then signings such as a walker n gigot or letting naverette and koppy go but keeping green and tangata there is others but sure you get my point..then add to this getting an extra coach in last to help him using player budget money to finance that .this isnt bad luck.

Lets hope he can finally make a decent signing(like kelepi) with the AF money and pull us out of this poop as in an ideal world this is what we want.

We both want the same outcome but I believe we cannot achieve it with Chester in charge but judging by your post above you do. This does not make my opinion and less valid than yours despite what you believe nor does it make me any less a supporter. I admit I am not on email terms with MC, maybe you could use your lofty position to ask the club what they are intending to do to ensure we are at least given a chance to avoid relegation.

[iPoint of order:[/i the injuries were only really 2019. 2020 was covid withdrawals. This year is only just beginning and not yet comparable to 2019. So, only one year, so far, of injury bad luck.

I agree some of the recruitment was baffling. Ryan Atkins? I guess when you're shopping at poundworld you have to take a chance that the North Korean phone charger is not going to explode in your face. When you're taking a punt there is a level of luck that they work out well.

The problem and solution are the same MONEY. We don't have any and in reality shouldn't be in the top division of a professional sport, but we keep on hanging in there hoping for a miracle.

This is not 1986 or even 2015, the team is better than that, we've been fairly competitive - it could all work out... keep the faith - for now. Confidence and mental toughness seem to be lacking, a single win could make all the difference.

The Dean Whare first half try summed it up for me. We try an offload in their half and pass it to a Catalans player. On the next tackle we are offside. They boot it into our half, we fail to get set, Langi taps while we have our backs turned and makes an easy 13-14 yards. They just ship it out wide for a fairly easy walk in.

Just a cluster of errors.

For comparison, I just thought I'd see what the graph of a really successful club looks like. So here's Wigan & Wakefield on the same graph.



Their mean position is 4.6, median of 3.0 and the mode is of course 1st (26 times in 126 seasons - more than 1 in 5)

We've only finished above them on 12 occasions in 117 seasons (not counting when they were split into county leagues)
2 of those were during the war time emergency leagues of 1944 and 1945, 2 were the season Wigan were relegated and the season they were in the 2nd division and another 2 were recently in SL (2009 & 2017)
We really are a middling club that sometimes punches above its weight. Staying in SL is an achievement, winning a trophy is spectacular.

For me there's a losing mind set in the team...they've become so accustomed to it there's no belief they can win and they've forgotten how to...you only have to see the last quarters of the Hull and Catalans games to see that...there was an air of inevitability in the Hull game that when we had got back to 14-14 and they then got the ball in our 20 they were going to score their winning try and it was the same when Kaye's try was chalked off vs Catalans...that mind set and air of inevitability crept in and it was 'here we go again', 'how unlucky are we'.

This mind set is throughout the players and seeps into any new signings we make so that they become as disputed and low on confidence...hence al the comments of 'we'll coach it out of them' etc.

We need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and show the pride that this topic is asking us all to comment on