Absolutely spot on.

I'd also like to point out the other myth the leave campaign peddles which is the £350m per week it supposedly costs to be in the EU. It really doesn't. With the rebate we instantly get, the extra trade we have due to being inside and the hand outs given for individual projects the monetary benefits far outweigh the money spent to be in. Leaving would actually cost money and where do you think that shortfall would come from? Yep, the tax payer through higher taxation and deeper cuts to services.

This has been doing the rounds on social media. Kind of struck a chord.

[iSome of my friends and relations have told me they will vote for Brexit in our referendum. At the risk of falling out with them I intend to vote for us to remain in the EU. Here's a bit of pre-EU history to help explain my position.
I grew up in a time of post-war austerity. My country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, was broke and virtually in ruins. Germans were still "the enemy" in children's games. Bomb sites and abandoned air-raid shelters were our playgrounds. Nine years after the war ended butter, meat and sugar were still rationed. One couldn't buy sweets without coupons issued by the government.
Portugal and Spain were fascist dictatorships. In Spain unauthorised gatherings of more than 3 people were illegal. A military junta later seized power in Greece. Half of Europe was sealed off behind the Iron Curtain. I remember lying in bed at night, in my parents home, and hearing the roar of American warplanes flying overhead on their Cold War missions. We were told that, if the Russians unleashed their missiles, we would get 4 minutes' warning of Armageddon.
In Britain our currency was weak. We had exchange controls. Travellers were allowed to take only £25 sterling out of the country plus a limited amount in foreign currency. On return, any left over had to be sold back to an authorised trader. The details were entered in one's passport. (See photo.)
The UK still had the death penalty despite some obvious and irreversible miscarriages of justice. In France they still executed condemned prisoners by cutting their heads off. In Spain they used strangulation.
The press and the BBC, (there was only the BBC), were not free from government interference and books, films and plays were censored. Women were paid less than men for equivalent work and landlords could turn away black and Irish people with impunity. For private acts of "gross indecency" gay men were sent to prison.
During the 1950s, six similarly devastated European countries were determined that the catastrophe of war between them should never be repeated. They decided to work towards creating a single European economy. The result was never "just a trading agreement" as some detractors now suggest. The Treaty of Rome, signed in 1957, provided for free movement of goods, services, people and capital, with the stated aim of "closer relations between the States".
The UK was invited to participate from the outset, but Prime Minister Attlee rather scornfully declined, thus missing the opportunity to influence the future development of Europe. However, by 1961 it had become obvious that the economies of "the Six", (France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg), were growing faster than ours, so we applied to join. It took 9 years of negotiations, (and 2 vetoes), before terms were agreed. The United Kingdom officially joined the European Communities on 1st January 1973.
In the 1980s many of our skilled workers took advantage of the free movement of people and migrated to West Germany, whose economy had already overtaken ours. These British " migrants" were the inspiration for a popular television series, "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet".
Since 1945 there have been wars in Europe, but none between countries that were members of the European Union. Despite global economic storms, the EU's citizens in 28 independent countries enjoy greater prosperity and greater freedom of movement, freedom from discrimination, freedom from conflict, freedom to trade across borders and freedom of expression than at any time in history.
So far no member state has ever applied to leave the EU. There have always been candidates to join but to succeed they must have democracy, the rule of law, a market economy and guarantees for the protection of minorities and human rights. They also need the support of ALL existing members, including us, without which they cannot join. In my opinion it would be a shame if Britain were to turn its back on Europe, give up its voice and influence, and opt for an uncertain future. So...I shall vote IN on 23rd June.[/i

Very quaint but absolutely nothing to do with the problems facing the UK in the 21st Century.
Monty Python's we used to dream of living in a shoebox comes to mind.

Exactly like the vote leave's campaign then.

I'm afraid the 'we are Britain, everybody will come running to us and all will be fine' spiel from Boris & Co doesn't cut it sadly. The world doesn't work that way anymore.

It's interesting to watch the establishment turn on itself during this debate; the heads of respected business and finance organisations are almost universally in favour of remain, yet Jacob Rees Mogg and others are being wheeled out to discredit them at every opportunity. They've even got the cast of Spitting Image out of whatever warehouse they were stored in to turn the screws - whomever thought that would make Brexit a more appealing message was sadly mistaken.

It looks like this will be a double win; we'll stay in the EU, and the Tories will tear themselves apart in the process.

I agree either way after the referendum Camerons' days are numbered thankfully but he was going anyway. The winners if we stay in the EU will be no doubt be those heads of business and finance that are of course in favour of remain. Oh yes and the likes of Kinnock, Mandelson & Junkers that make the remain message so appealing. Continuing lower wages, rising immigration, TTIP agreement, more EU funding and the french will bailing out very soon too but never mind....Turkey & Albania will be rocking up soon to join the EU party.

you'll do for me

the thoughts of our leader sticking his cock in a pigs mouth and that with the lies and deceit that this government continue spew out would not give the confidence to even follow his advice, you only have to listen to the excuses what COULD happen give the impression that he's clutching at straws, this guys left a worse impression than that bitch thatcher, I look back at what this country has become and shake my head in shame

time to start again

The problem is that both Corbyn and Cameron both see staying in Europe as the best way forward and their political ideals couldn't be further away from each other.

I don't really want to be governed by either of them but the thought of Farage and Johnson sharing the same political bed should be left for Spitting Image, not for running the country.

The crazy irony in all this is that the Scottish vote (a country that wanted out of the UK) may well be the difference and the irony in that is quite mind blowing.

"Every form of infrastructure is stretched and broken,
Health
Education
Public Services
Housing
Welfare"
Avenger may be right about this but, if all these public services are broken, it's not because of immigration. Immigrants are keeping the NHS going. The majority of immigrants don't claim welfare (other than in work benefits). Immigrants aren't responsible for lack of school places. Immigrants done sutomatically get housing given to them and they're not responsible for the housing shortage. All these things are the result of government policies by a set of politicians who don't give a 5hit about working people and just want to reduce public services to a skeleton and force those who can afford it to pay for decent services - and God help those who can't afford it. These things are nothing to do with being in the EU. They're everything to do with the people of this country voting in a set of ideologically driven, every man for himself, dog eat dog, selfish ba5tards. Leave the EU and were at the mercy of Osborne, Gove, Johnson and their likes. We get a lot from the EU - what we pay is a small price for the benefits of being IN.

This is a debate that will run and run even after the result... which I believe will be a north/south split. I am definitely in the out camp for reasons already stated by other contributors. I will say this though....that pair of buffoons Blair and Brown are rabid europhiles and they nearly bankrupted the country... And that's enough for me to want out. Oh and the Welsh windbag Kinnock.

The eu is corrupt unelected and unacountable there are unelected people making decisions that we haven't voted in and cannot vote out that to me is a frightening state of affairs .

This. The idea that migrants come here to sit on the dole in a free council house is a complete myth. As you say, most are working and pay into the system like everyone else.

We are being dragged towards becoming like America, with massive inequality, privatised health service and selfish values.

The EU isn't great but give me their ethos over the Tories any day!

The problem with mass immigration is even if they are working they DO put pressure on schools,housing and the nhs- surely this can't be denied. They can't pay enough in tax for years to offset the immediate costs they incur. Go into any school,a&e dept or doctors waiting room and you will see the drain on our countries finances . I would love to live in a fluffy bunny idealistic world ...but we don't. Our nett immigration is massively in the positive...it costs...get real

You've never heard of MEP's then? The ones we, like all the other cointries, elect to represent us in the European Parliament? This elected parliament chooses the leader of the European Commission of which we are one of 28 representatives. Whilst a part of this we have a say in what does and doesn't get decided, we also have the same veto as everybody else. Leave and we have no say whatsoever, yet we will still be bound by their rules when we go and try to agree a trade agreement through the common market with them. Which if we don't want the country to go belly up within two year we would HAVE to do.