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My final thoughts on the issue;
Immigration - It's a fact of life: we need immigrants in this country. Immigrants contribute more than they cost and, for me at least, the country is a more interesting place for their presence. Most "ordinary" brexiters argue that immigration is a problem because there are too many in the country. The Leave campaign however argues that immigration is necessary but needs to be controlled. But what they refuse to say is how many immigrants they will allow in to the country. So, if we leave, those people who voted for Brexit because they think there are too many foreigners may well end up being very surprised to find that there are even more immigrants than before. Not quite what they w ere expecting
The economy - I'm no economist so I have to take the word of the hundreds of economists and business people who say the economy will suffer if we leave. I know there are a few who say the opposite but, if I were on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' and I'd asked the audience, I'd probably go with that very large majority. Of course, Gove says don't listen to experts, they're wrong and I'm right, but that's exactly how he approached his job as SoS for Education and look how well that's working out!
Michael Gove - He's a complete prick and a liar. If he says Leave that's a good enough reason to vote Remain
Security - The head of NATO has just come out and said the security of Europe will be weakened if we leave. As regards terrorism - it doesn't respect borders and we have to cooperate with other countries to combat the threat. Our borders are already secure - you need a passport to enter the UK - we don't need to take control of the borders. As far as I know, the only foreign politicians who think it's a good idea to Brexit are Trump, Marine le Pen and Putin - see my comment re Gove!!!
Environment - Like terrorism, pollution doesn't respect borders - we need to work together to combat climate change
Turkey - I know it's government policy to get them in but only if they satisfy all the conditions. It's not going to happen anytime soon and if it were put forward I would suggest that any UK govt that didn't veto it would be out on its pretty quickly.
There are loads of other reasons to Remain but, if anybody's still undecided, just consider that the Leavers have not been able to give ANY detail of what life after Brexit would be like. They just tell us to trust them, it'll all be ok. They say that remain is Project Fear. I say that Leave is Project Pie in the Sky. Don't risk it. VOTE REMAIN.

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Quote: bren2k "They've been working on it for 10 years - and have managed to complete one element of the 30 or so they would have to complete before being able to apply; then every other country has a veto on the application. You've been suckered by Johnson and Farage if you believe that Turkey will join the EU in your lifetime.

When the negotiations started they were looking for Turkey to be a member of the EU by 2020, its only because the Turks voted in a hardline Islamist leader President Erdogan that negotiations have slowed. Turkey was a secular country but has recently veered more to a dictatorship. If however Turkey [still a democratic country] go on to vote back in a secular leader the fast track to EU membership will pick up speed again. BREAKING NEWS It has just been announced that a MEETING is taking place in Ankara on June 30th 2016 between the 28 nation EU block of countries and the Turkish goverment where the EU has pledged to SPEED UP MEMBERSHIP of the EU as part of a controversial agreement to tackle the EU's migrant crisis. i am 67 and i reckon i will live long enough to see if it comes true or not. VOTE LEAVE to get out of the undemocratic EU and the UK will be able to control our own borders and our own destiny. vote for a better future for your children and grandchildrens future

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'That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party.... So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin':23909.gif



Quote: bren2k "They've been working on it for 10 years - and have managed to complete one element of the 30 or so they would have to complete before being able to apply; then every other country has a veto on the application. You've been suckered by Johnson and Farage if you believe that Turkey will join the EU in your lifetime.

Meanwhile - of course the government has to be seen to be supporting their accession; how else to persuade them to improve their dreadful record on human rights, free speech etc?

The idea that million of Turks are lining up to come to the UK is part of the xenophobic rhetoric that the UKIP/Leave campaign have created to support their argument; it's simply a lie, as is the £360 million a week contribution they talked about, and the suggestion that they would use any net saving to fund the NHS - these are politicians who voted for the bedroom tax, the year on year reduction in public sector wages and the swingeing cuts to Health & Social Care budgets for local authorities - and now we are asked to believe that they'll shower the NHS with money; and where exactly will that money come from, when we're in a recession caused by Brexit?'"


Agree wholeheartedly with that last paragraph. It's all a massive Hobson's choice for me, couldn't bring myself to align myself with xenophobes like Faradge (Farage with a soft g my ) yet feel that the EU favours huge corporations and does little to stop the ongoing transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy overall. Think Paul Mason nails it

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[quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg



Quote: KevW60349 "vote for a better future for your children and grandchildrens future'"
Unless you have raised them to be xenophobes, if you ask your children and grandchildren I'm pretty certain they will want to stay.

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Quote: headhunter "Unless you have raised them to be xenophobes, if you ask your children and grandchildren I'm pretty certain they will want to stay.'"


Why would they be xenophobia if they want out though? You don't know that.

I want to know where all this xenophobic b*ll*ks was when the Scottish had a refurendum whether to leave the UK.

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Quote: headhunter "Unless you have raised them to be xenophobes, if you ask your children and grandchildren I'm pretty certain they will want to stay.'"


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[quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg



Quote: Willzay "Why would they be xenophobia if they want out though? You don't know that.

I want to know where all this xenophobic b*ll*ks was when the Scottish had a refurendum whether to leave the UK.'"
It's not, but the overwhelming majority of young people want to stay and the only ones I've really encountered who want to vote out seem to mostly be Britain First types. Not saying this is the case across all generations BTW but the OP was using the "children/grandchildren" argument.

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Quote: deeHell "Exactly. Once you give up your right to choose your government you no longer hold them to account. It's can only end in tears. Many voters will vote in the belief they are voting for the status Quo, history shows there is no status quo when it come to the EU.'"


Seriously ?

So you think that the British government has no power ?
No Tory spending cuts ? European parliament didn't do that or try to cut benefits to the disabled, that was our very own government.
IF we had adopted the Euro as our currenct, then they would have had a fair bit of influence but, dont be taken in by the Brexit rhetoric.

If what you are saying is true, there would have been no need for a general election.
Perhaps Labour wouldn't have overspent as well and if your dream team is Boris and Nigel, vote out.
They would make great bedfellows for Trump !

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Seriously ?

So you think that the British government has no power ?
No Tory spending cuts ? European parliament didn't do that or try to cut benefits to the disabled, that was our very own government.
IF we had adopted the Euro as our currenct, then they would have had a fair bit of influence but, dont be taken in by the Brexit rhetoric.

If what you are saying is true, there would have been no need for a general election.
Perhaps Labour wouldn't have overspent as well and if your dream team is Boris and Nigel, vote out.
They would make great bedfellows for Trump !'"

Seriously . Would you want the euro? It's because we don't have the euro that we have the strongest economy in Europe!

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In my opinion the majority of people voting leave are those who have been fooled by the Tories "Starve public services of cash and blame the foreigners for the resulting strain" scam

The rest are optimists who think that we can compete with the likes of China and the US on our own... sadly not true.

I'll be voting remain, because while the EU isn't perfect, it still does a lot of good work for its citizens. If we leave ,we could end up like the USA with many workers having few/no rights to maternity pay, paid leave, paid sick days, free healthcare etc.

We're already on the way with the blossoming of 0 hour contracts and agencies signing up huge amounts of companies so that they can send them staff with little or no protection if the employer wants them gone.

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In my opinion our useless government have been totally out manuvered by the EU on this.all we have done is managed to do is divide our country.. If Cameron had gone to the EU at the start asked for a better deal that he could sell to the voters,Or I'm going to recommend that we leave, he would have got the Germans attension strait away.... TheEU may not of folded their cards at this point, and may well of opted to call our bluff by letting the vote go ahead. But had we voted out, does anyone think we would be allowed to leave? With Britain having the 5th biggest economy in world.not a chance!
Some of the remain lobby have stated it would take two years to negotiate an exit(what long winded carry on that would be)I think they would of come back with some fresh ideas, let us put that to the vote until they got the result they wanted ...
I know some tool in the EU has said today out means out!!!! But they have to say that ,they can't say any other , there trying to call our bluff.... But we have missed the boat...as I think enough people will be persuaded to remain...
If the tories had had some balls from the start got us a better deal I wouldn't be voting out tomorrow. But the country will be worse for it when remain wins because I think we will see a more extreme Britian . Which is something none of us wants!.
The common market was fine by me, but slowly there's an EU parliament sprung up passing laws down, the European court of human rights is a bit of a joke sometimes and I think if we vote remain then sooner or later The EU will have too much clout.
It's a tough call. We all have different views ... Time will tell...

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Quote: headhunter "Unless you have raised them to be xenophobes, if you ask your children and grandchildren I'm pretty certain they will want to stay.'"

Are you trying to imply something because of my post. My four grandkids are part Scottish / Irish and Italian, i think that shows how i brought my 3 children up who are Wakefield born and bred. My eldest lad married a Scottish lass and now lives in Spain. My eldest daughter's partner is half Italian. there was no xenophobia in our household. i lived for 35 years in College Grove and have only left the area recently due to downsizing, i got on well with all my Asian neighbours and quite a few Eastern Europeans who settled in the area after the Second World War, they still speak to me when i see them. i have nothing against immigration into this country, but what i want is CONTROLLED immigration, not the free for all we get with been a member of the EU. we have no say who comes into the UK from other EU countries due to free movement and that includes anyone from around the world who gets citizenship in the EU. We will never be able to control our borders unless we leave, we should be able to decide for ourselves who can come into this country and not be overruled by EU judges.

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Quote: wotsupcas "Seriously . Would you want the euro? It's because we don't have the euro that we have the strongest economy in Europe!'"


That was the point I was making.
Because we dont have the Euro, it is not Brussels controlling the British economy, it is the British government.
Farage and Johnson have been spewing out the line that we cant move because of rules created by Europe but, most people couldn't tell you any of these that make their life any more difficult.
As I said, it wasn't Brussels that brought in austerity cuts in Britain, it was our democratically elected government and it certainly wasn't Brussels trying to take money from the poorest people in our society (whilst letting the large international companies Google, Starbucks, Microsoft etc, etc pay feck all in tax), that was our British government.
The ruling classes are hiding behind and blaming Europe for all of the wrongs in this country and it's largely nonsense.

Even immigration, which is the trump cart of the Brexit campaign shows half of the total immigration coming from outside Europe (over 150,000) and this is the element that we "control".

The Brexit campaign is hoping things will be better.

Well, if we vote out on Thursday, there will be a recession in the UK next year and nobody knows quite how deep and how long this will last so, THANK YOU.

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[quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg



Quote: KevW60349 "Are you trying to imply something because of my post. My four grandkids are part Scottish / Irish and Italian, i think that shows how i brought my 3 children up who are Wakefield born and bred. My eldest lad married a Scottish lass and now lives in Spain. My eldest daughter's partner is half Italian. there was no xenophobia in our household. i lived for 35 years in College Grove and have only left the area recently due to downsizing, i got on well with all my Asian neighbours and quite a few Eastern Europeans who settled in the area after the Second World War, they still speak to me when i see them. i have nothing against immigration into this country, but what i want is CONTROLLED immigration, not the free for all we get with been a member of the EU. we have no say who comes into the UK from other EU countries due to free movement and that includes anyone from around the world who gets citizenship in the EU. We will never be able to control our borders unless we leave, we should be able to decide for ourselves who can come into this country and not be overruled by EU judges.'"
No, I'm not implying anything about you, I'm implying that if you ask your children or grandchildren they will probably tell you they want to stay.

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So let me get this straight

All the Bremains are level headed, clear thinking and logical people who know all the facts and have made a considered view.

All the Brexiters are borderline xenophobic or worse and have been taken in by Boris and the evil Nigel Farage.

I'm out!

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Featherstone 24 566 472 94 26
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Batley 24 378 513 -135 20
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Barrow 23 418 648 -230 19
Swinton 24 446 606 -160 18
Whitehaven 24 414 806 -392 16
Dewsbury 25 308 821 -513 2
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