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Quote: bren2k "I just don't buy the dog-whistle soundbites about big business and the financial elite; I agree that there are issues around fair taxation and sharp practices that need to be addressed, but without entrepreneurs and wealth creators like Branson, the economy would collapse.

Ironically, we're in a stronger position to do that stuff as part of the EU - the French finance authority for example, just raided Google's offices for tax compliance offences.'"


And took rather more from them than The British Government allowed them to get away with.

If we are worried about anyone allowing big business to "get away with it", we don't have to look too far along Downing Street for some examples of how the rich and wealthy use legal loopholes and other methods to heavily reduce their tax
burden.

The ruling class in the UK have always looked after themselves and their own, usually to the detriment of the less well off.
Let's all vote to give them an even freer reign over the masses a046.gif

Look after your own and squeeze the last drop of life from the poor and unfortunate, the Tories will love that.

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I'm interested to see Gove suggest that upon Brexit, they'll cut VAT on energy bills - saving the average family a massive 60 quid a year.

That's about the 8th or 9th thing I've seen them promise to spend the so-called savings resulting from Brexit on; I believe it already adds up to several times the value of the contributions.

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I hope the rhetoric changes over the next 2 weeks to include a bit more reality.
The Albanians arriving will not help the remain cause one iota. I see Boris and Gove want to introduce an Australian points system.
I like that idea but how does it work if they are not the government? Presumably Cameron just stands to one side and lets them take over?
any ideas?

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Quote: Manuel "I hope the rhetoric changes over the next 2 weeks to include a bit more reality.
The Albanians arriving will not help the remain cause one iota. I see Boris and Gove want to introduce an Australian points system.
I like that idea but how does it work if they are not the government? Presumably Cameron just stands to one side and lets them take over?
any ideas?'"


If Britain votes for Exit, Cameron's position will immediately become untenable and I presume there would have to be a general election.

What would be great, but it isn't going to happen, would be a little more of the truth from both sides.
I know that politicians are famous for not keeping their promises, once they are elected but, the utter lies and deceit (from both sides) during this "campaign" has been a poor advert for democracy.

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The most disappointing thing about the lead up to the referendum is how it has become a vehicle by which the Tory party aim to define the political direction in which they are heading long term.The media have been irresponsible in their over indulgence in the Boris v Cameron contest. Furthermore there are those who will not vote remain as they despise Cameron.There are those who are not capable of divorcing the personalities from the actual issues. The Labour Party have been negligent in allowing the whole situation to be hijacked and not entering wholeheartedly into the debate.

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Quote: thebeagle "The most disappointing thing about the lead up to the referendum is how it has become a vehicle by which the Tory party aim to define the political direction in which they are heading long term.The media have been irresponsible in their over indulgence in the Boris v Cameron contest. Furthermore there are those who will not vote remain as they despise Cameron.There are those who are not capable of divorcing the personalities from the actual issues. The Labour Party have been negligent in allowing the whole situation to be hijacked and not entering wholeheartedly into the debate.'"

Could that be because the current Labour leader was until very,very recently anti EU, and it wasn't many years ago the Labour Party itself were also not fully supportive of the UK being a member. Jeremy Corbyn seems to have changed his tune and has suddenly become pro EU since he was elected leader of the Labour Party.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "the utter lies and deceit (from both sides) during this "campaign" has been a poor advert for democracy.'"


I wouldn't disagree - it's been a very negative campaign from both sides, with the Brexiters going full UKIP, and the Remainers resorting to prophesies of WW3.

None of it is helped by the brazen Tory bias of the BBC News team - and when you look at the backgrounds of the people involved (Laura Kuenssberg, Andrew Neil, Robbie Gibb et al) it's no surprise; they're packed to the rafters with well-connected Conservatives, and their agenda is clear; never more so than their total failure to report on the election expenses scandal, which a HC Judge has just described as so extensive, that it could void the last general election.

No matter what happens with the EU referendum, the Tories are in a mess; and Labour are tearing themselves apart as the politicians try desperately to undo the overwhelming mandate given to Corbyn by the membership. Interesting times!

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So the big day is tomorrow.

Are we out or are we in.

I think I am out, but not sure of the impact it would have on expats living and working abroad.

I have also heard that it will affect the policy for the signing of foreign players, and this will affect our great game.

Any more thoughts

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Quote: Kevs Head "The Commission is unelected but it doesn't make laws. Elected MEPs consider the Commission,s recommendations and vote accordingly. Turkey has to satisfy something like 30 conditions for entry. So far, after 10 years negotiation, they've satisfied precisely one! It's not going to happen soon. And, do you think the UK would vote to admit Turkey?'"

you obviously haven't seen the news yesterday coming out of Turkey. we, the UK already have special advisors working in Turkey helping them with the application to join the EU. eusa_naughty.gif

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Since this topic was originally kicked off several weeks ago I think there's been quite a national swing towards the leave option. At my place of work I would reckon that about 90% are leave.
Don't think the Mayor of London did the stay campaign any good at all in the debate last night either.

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Quote: KevW60349 "you obviously haven't seen the news yesterday coming out of Turkey. we, the UK already have special advisors working in Turkey helping them with the application to join the EU.
With 1 "chapter" complete and another 40 (ish) to go, I think that it might take a while and ALL of the other countries have a veto on this.
Plus, IF they were able to meet all of the necessary criteria, should they be allowed to join.
We were at War with Germany 77 years ago and pointing nuclear weapons at some of the other member states as recently as the 1980's. Surely where we are now is a better situation.
At least we are talking to our closet neighbors, rather than trying to kill each other.
Under any measure, that is significant progress !

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Quote: KevW60349 "you obviously haven't seen the news yesterday coming out of Turkey. we, the UK already have special advisors working in Turkey helping them with the application to join the EU.
They've been working on it for 10 years - and have managed to complete one element of the 30 or so they would have to complete before being able to apply; then every other country has a veto on the application. You've been suckered by Johnson and Farage if you believe that Turkey will join the EU in your lifetime.

Meanwhile - of course the government has to be seen to be supporting their accession; how else to persuade them to improve their dreadful record on human rights, free speech etc?

The idea that million of Turks are lining up to come to the UK is part of the xenophobic rhetoric that the UKIP/Leave campaign have created to support their argument; it's simply a lie, as is the £360 million a week contribution they talked about, and the suggestion that they would use any net saving to fund the NHS - these are politicians who voted for the bedroom tax, the year on year reduction in public sector wages and the swingeing cuts to Health & Social Care budgets for local authorities - and now we are asked to believe that they'll shower the NHS with money; and where exactly will that money come from, when we're in a recession caused by Brexit?

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Quote: Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo "Since this topic was originally kicked off several weeks ago I think there's been quite a national swing towards the leave option. At my place of work I would reckon that about 90% are leave.
Don't think the Mayor of London did the stay campaign any good at all in the debate last night either.'"


That's funny cos I reckon it's a big swing to the remain campaign where I am.
The don't know group seem to be in the do no harm group and stay as we are.

The bookies are saying it is remain too.

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Quote: bren2k "They've been working on it for 10 years - and have managed to complete one element of the 30 or so they would have to complete before being able to apply; then every other country has a veto on the application. You've been suckered by Johnson and Farage if you believe that Turkey will join the EU in your lifetime.

Meanwhile - of course the government has to be seen to be supporting their accession; how else to persuade them to improve their dreadful record on human rights, free speech etc?

The idea that million of Turks are lining up to come to the UK is part of the xenophobic rhetoric that the UKIP/Leave campaign have created to support their argument; it's simply a lie, as is the £360 million a week contribution they talked about, and the suggestion that they would use any net saving to fund the NHS - these are politicians who voted for the bedroom tax, the year on year reduction in public sector wages and the swingeing cuts to Health & Social Care budgets for local authorities - and now we are asked to believe that they'll shower the NHS with money; and where exactly will that money come from, when we're in a recession caused by Brexit?'"


I would also say that the Brexit group have no one in their party that can promise anything. None of them lead a party that could be in power to make the decisions they promise if we leave EU.
Only Boris is a possible and he would need to win a leadership vote that is not even on yet. If Cameron stands down he would have to campaign for leadership of Conservatives and then go on and win the next election as well.
By then we will have seen the economy take a dip even if they are right in the long term, so I doubt he'd get in. It will take a long time to leave. We won't be out on Friday if the vote goes that way.

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Quote: PopTart "That's funny cos I reckon it's a big swing to the remain campaign where I am.
The don't know group seem to be in the do no harm group and stay as we are.

The bookies are saying it is remain too.'"


The betting odds are:

2/9 remain
3/1 exit

Much more of a difference than one may have expected

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