If Trump get's in, you may be needing a tin hat and it will be worth dusting down your nuclear bunker.

Sorry but that is a load of rubbish! Do you really think whichever side wins this makes any difference to the NHS whatsover? They are all Tories and they all want to privatise it one way or another. In fact voting to leave will probably make the likelihood of it happen increase given the people involved in that campaign, for example a guy called Arron Banks, one of the major players of the vote leave campaign has gone on record whilst cosying up to the people in America and stated he thinks it should be privatised! As a stand alone country the Yanks will ride roughshod all over us over this, as has been said the EU are not happy with many parts of the TTIP deal and have much more of a sway in negotiations as a larger bloc. The article is below.

rlhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anti-eu-leave-campaign-chief-arron-banks-nhs-privatised-a7022306.htmlrl

Some countries have problems, some do not, those problems are not ours.
I have family members with Asian descent and some with Jewish heritage, although lapsed.
Skin colour is not an issue with me.
We are wrecking our country with the influx of Islam and the intolerance it brings with many still with attitudes from the Middle Ages, also barbaric practices such as F.G.M. from Africa.
We do not need any more people from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Cameroon, Libya, Syria, Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc. WE ARE FULL.
Go to other places in Africa rather than tossing it off here and stretching all our services to breaking point. I have become intolerant as I have grown older from decisions by politicians such as Blair and Cameron who are a waste of space. My business thrives on trade with the EU but my private heart is firmly LEAVE.
We are simply destroying the fabric of our society.
I cannot expect everyone to agree. It's just my view.

And you are entitled to your view. But the last time i checked those countries you mentioned were not in Europe so is a bit of an irrelevance for this argument as they don't qualify for freedom of movement anyway. Nothing will change in that regard whatever the result.

The Tories obviously didn't put they were going to privatise the NHS in their Manifesto, but that doesn't stop them doing it!

Just a moment, didn't Blairs Labour goverment introduce private finance initiatives to build new hospitals [Pinderfields and Pontefract to name two] aren't these forms of privatisation. my point is we have a vote every 5 years and can kick out goverment. i will say it again, recent history shows the EU just rides roughshod over democratic votes [previous referendums in recent EU history] if they don't like the way they went.

Sacred Cow.
It does matter in my opinion as to which country is relevant as I would like to restrict entry as much as possible from everywhere and get some of the lard s we have doing the jobs the Eastern Europeans are doing or stop their dole. We are in the EU and abide by their rules. Not Schengen though. Africans are coming into the EU as it is a soft touch. Roma families are coming here because we are a soft touch.
I have spent 40 years in International business. I know my geography and do not need lecturing by you.
If we leave the EU, we are in a better place to restrict access and impose our own laws. We can create our own "human rights" interpretation and repatriate as applicable.
When we joined the EU, many hundreds of experienced HMRC officers were put to grass. They controlled immigration and smuggling, that experience has been lost.
It is time to look after ourselves and prioritise housing and welfare to people who have lived and paid taxes here.
Australia is a good example to follow. My view thanks. LEAVE.

Government outsourced the new builds to Balfour beatty through a finance deal wih RBS, think they did have around 50% ownership of the builds as well up until last year when they sold them to HSBC and so did RBS. So yes both pinderfields & ponte is fully owned by HSBC and leased to the NHS at a extortionate price If thats not privatization by the Labour government then what is.

Quote: KevW60349 "Vote LEAVE or you will be waving goodbye to the NHS as we know it. in ongoing talks between the EU and USA on a Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership [T.T.I.P] hundreds of leaked documents just released show talks between the EU and USA on a T.T.I.P will lead to the NHS being privatised or dismantled. one section of the documents make clear an agreement will seek an end to all State intervention and a review of all State owned enterprises or monopolies. the USA private medical firms will be rubbing their hands with glee if we vote to stay in the EU. VOTE LEAVE'" Or maybe not. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36332415 Downing Street has headed off a revolt over the Queen's Speech by saying it will accept a move to exclude the NHS from a controversial EU-US trade deal.

Quote: KevW60349 "Vote LEAVE or you will be waving goodbye to the NHS as we know it. in ongoing talks between the EU and USA on a Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership [T.T.I.P] hundreds of leaked documents just released show talks between the EU and USA on a T.T.I.P will lead to the NHS being privatised or dismantled. one section of the documents make clear an agreement will seek an end to all State intervention and a review of all State owned enterprises or monopolies. the USA private medical firms will be rubbing their hands with glee if we vote to stay in the EU. VOTE LEAVE'" Or maybe not. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36332415 Downing Street has headed off a revolt over the Queen's Speech by saying it will accept a move to exclude the NHS from a controversial EU-US trade deal.

We can already do that for non-EU migration, and it's made no appreciable difference; the figure continues to rise and is significantly above the targets the government set for itself.

Movement of people is a feature of modern life - and as funky as it sounds to suggest that all the jobs being done by immigrants should be given to UK nationals who are currently on benefits, it just doesn't work like that; the reason those jobs go to immigrants is because UK nationals don't apply and immigrants do; so they come here to work, pay taxes and buy things - and in so doing, contribute to the upkeep of the welfare state, the largest proportion of which is spent on in-work benefits and pensions.

Bren, My view is different. If the system worked, we would not have so many non EU economic migrants. We also have many EU economic migrants freeloading but I agree, we have plenty of hardworking EU migrants and I have employed Poles who put our local workers to shame with their dedication.
Local English people do not apply for the jobs in Lincolnshire for example, because they are idle and cossetted by a nanny state and prefer not to work in cold and wet.
The roads and streets are full of litter, we could make people earn their dole. We are just used to a system that gives to freeloaders.
I have always preferred a coalition government system where a rotation of leader takes place every three years and avoids having to put up with people like Thatcher, Blair and Cameron and involves people working for the country.
LEAVE.

Salford 16 Trinity 28

x

So your real issue is the benefit system - which in some cases does indeed offer a disincentive to work; in my business for example, when the NLW was announced, I had some part time staff ask if they could continue to be paid at the old rate, as the NLW would reduce their working tax credits. What they didn't realise of course, was that was exactly what was intended - reduce the benefit bill by targeting those people who are actually trying to improve their lot, but who don't vote - younger people and women.

Anyhow - the welfare state is not an EU matter, so you can happily switch your vote to remain; and I hope you're right about that scoreline!

Sorry, are we suggesting that all EU migrants are in work and none are claiming benefits?

Do those migrants that are given priority housing status all pay full rent and council tax?

Are saying that all migrant children seeking places in school are from families that have working parents?

Are all the migrants who use our NHS services contributing via National Insurance?

As has just been said above, we are already in a position to do that to the counties you mentioned in your first post but it makes no difference as they still come. That part has no relevence on the EU vote which is what i was pointing out, it matters not what the result is it won't change that. And as it's pretty much certain we will end up signing a free trade agreement with the EU if we voted to leave to enable companies to carry on trading to the same levels as before and not cause an economic meltdown then we will also have to accept their rules in this, one of which is freedom of movement to work. The leave campaign don't like mentioning this bit though but essentially it means things carrying on as before but with no say in the matter.
As you say we are not though signed up to the Schengen Agreement so we have still got our border controls, this will not change thanks to our ongoing opt-out so i'm not sure what you are getting at with the HMRC comment we still have border police and immigration officers that are experienced and very competent in their jobs.
You mention Australia as a good example to follow but it's worth noting that they have a higher net migration that we do and as a percentage nearly twice as many of their population are foreign born as opposed to the UK.
Personally, yes i'd like to see tougher controls on immigration and in particular what people are entitled to once here but the way to do it is work within the EU to influence it, not try and shout from outside whilst the flow continues anyway. I would definately tighten up the rules for non-EU now as we can already do that and a points based system would be fine for that. But we have to be careful not to go too far and put off the people who also benefit the country. It's a fine line. It's a cosmopolitan world these days and things have moved on. as a country we have to move with the times otherwise we will get left far behind.