You can’t question the effort in defence. It was a gritty and determined display by the lads. However, it was yet another game where we had weight of possession, had decent field position and were camped on the oppo’s line yet failed to capitalise. In that first half we should have notched up at least two or three tries. In the second half our cluelessness when we were near to Hull’s line meant that we spurned decent opportunities to score points. It’s a win we have let slip through our fingers because let’s make no bones about it - Hull were there for the taking.

Gutsy / unstructured / no finesse - the commentators say the same things every time they see us play. And they are right; for far too long now we seem to have a ‘turn up and it will be alright on the night’ mentality when it comes to our attack. It’s so obvious what is missing from our game – CC, or someone, needs to instil some rigid structure into our attacking play. We need to take it back to basics on the training paddock if we are going to start winning games. We need to be watching the top ESL and NRL teams when they play, identify the plays they put on to unlock defences and replicate them to the tee. We need to practice those plays again and again and again until the lads can run them with their eyes closed. Those plays will break down defences and then the lads can try some of their off the cuff stuff. However, they have to earn the right to play in that fashion by working for one another and being disciplined in attack in the first instance; and the responsibility for getting that first bit right falls fairly and squarely on CC’s shoulders.

There was one positive aspect of our attacking play tonight; our last play kicking options were much improved and better than they’ve been for some time. However, until we address the fundamental problems we have with ball in hand, it does not matter how many times we manage to obtain repeat sets because we simply don’t cross the line enough times to win games.

Carry on further down the page. If a player is out of play then those scenarios you keep quoting are irrelevant. "Are not put “on side” in the manner described in para 3 above"

Ian Smith has apparently said that players being offside at the play the ball isn't in the video refs remit, which I wasn't aware of but it makes sense as to why the try was given. Thaler obviously missed it (mistakes happen), and the video ref couldn't rule on it.

I suggest everyone plays to the St Helens rule book, they never get pulled up for offside for any type of kick.

Mason was out of play which, as it states further down the rules from you've stated and has been put on here by Coco, supersedes the part you’ve highlighted and means he can’t be put back onside by Crowther. It should have been no try, Thaler got it wrong and for reasons best known to the rule makers the video ref is not allowed to rile on it. One in our favour for once but i’d have been livid if the boot was on the other foot.

What's the fuss ,there is a rule that says you can not throw the ball forward. Your big teams got rid of that rule a long time ago,and have won many matches .on the back of it ..The way you are going on about it, you would think Hull had scored that try in the last minute to win the game .A few years ago Leeds won a Cup S F with 2 trys one a blatant forward pass and the other a blatant knock on bet Leeds fans were not saying those trys should not have been given