Eddie, look at the Italy side that won the last world cup or the Greek side that won Euro 2004. Hardly the greatest side at either tournament and hardly oozed world class players in each position. Sometimes, tactics, momentum and luck can play bigger factors.

Nice to see Gerrard upto his old tricks, shocking and not even mentioned on MOTD. YSB.

United squad that have travelled to Wolfsburg

Ben Foster, Gabriel Obertan, Magnus Eikrem, Paul Scholes, Darron Gibson, Antonio Valencia, Oliver Gill, Michael Carrick, Matty James, Michael Owen, Darren Fletcher, Danny Welbeck, Ji-sung Park, Anderson, Patrice Evra, Cameron Stewart, Tomasz Kuszczak, Nani, Oliver Norwood.


If you are going, take your boots.

Matty James is a good one.

The last 3 world cup winners have all had weak spots in their teams, in the case of Italy one of the weakest teams on paper to have ever won it IMO, but their tactics saw them overachieve. FFS, Greece recently won the Euros with a squad no coach in the world would have fancied. I fancy this world cup to be one of the most open by virtue of there being several of the usual top nations with wobbling or below-par squads by their usual standards. In contrast, we are about as good as we have been for almost 20 years.

Those last 2 reasons along with the relatively favourable draw are why we should be looking to make a final.

I'll state again, clearly: I'm not saying we will make the final. But there are no excuses why we shouldn't challenge for it, as teams with all of the attributes we are going into this world cup with, both good and bad, have done.

Agreed. If a foreign team had a core group of players of the capability of Gerrard, Terry, Rooney, Lampard & Cole, we would regard them as serious contenders, presuming that they should be able to muster another half a dozen reasonably competent players to go with them. I dont see anything wrong in applying the same logic to England. I think Brazil & Spain are a cut above the rest but dont see any reason why England supporters shouldnt have a degree of optimism.

I am getting more and more convinced by Milner. I think he would maybe be my first choise right side now for England. Although I do like Lennon.

I think Milner is almost a shoe in now. Can play left side, right side or even full back positions at a push.

Exactly. Some people and pundits are tipping Ivory Coast on the basis of the likes of Drogba, both Toure's, and Keita. But then when you look and see that the likes of Eboue, Meite, Zokora, Dindane, and Kalou are regulars, it's clear they are just as plain as us if not weaker throughout the rest of the side/squad. Not every position needs to have a world class player in it in order to do well.

Even the Brazil squad has players like Elano, Lucas, and Baptista floating around the first team, and they're most people's 2nd favourites. On paper, there's only Spain that look massively strong IMO.

I want England to do well but I'm not sure I want them to win it. I think there are players in there who already think they are gods gift without adding a world cup winners medal to boot.

Pig

Gill - Carrick - Gibson/Fletch - Evra

Park - Fletch/Gibson - Scholes - Anderson - Welbeck

Owen

100 stake on Wolfsburg ?

I think you gave an excellent response to MEs post. However, I have to pick up on the reference to Elano. The lad is a talent. A big talent. He just needs the right role in the right team. Look at his assist in the goal against Enland. That pass was sublime, and I would go as far to say that no player in the England squad could produce such a pass.

As for Spain, they do have some weak points. I am not overly impressed with the full-backs. Please don't respond with 'Ramos is a quality full-back'. He's a show pony.

A couple of weeks ago I posted about the bravery and toughness of De Jong. Some said Essien was tougher and braver.

Anyone see Essien skip like a girl on two occasions to avoid a 50:50 with De Jong? I'd be embarrassed if I was Essien. He looked like a right tart.

A win against Arsenal and a win against Chelsea then the city fans return...how odd.

I can't say I did see Essien skipping out of 50/50 balls, but with the way Howard Webb was refereeing the game I'm not surprised Essien pulled out of them because he was itching to give us yellows.

As an example, how the hell did Onuoha not pick up a yellow with the lunge that resulted in the penalty?

What do you think of city's new ice hockey themed player entrance thing?



So because Webb didn't book the city player it showed he was itching to book Chelsea players?

We had six bookings. Citeh had one.

The penalty decision was a blatant yellow card offence, yet he didn't give him one.

Welcome to our world, always happens with United at Stamford Bridge.

Which one, mate? On Wednesday the Blue Moon was projected on to the East Stand (opposite from where I was sitting - 3rd tier, Colin Bell Stand) and it was shown on the TV screens. On Saturday, the Blue Moon wasn't projected on to any stand. They simply projected it on to the TV screens. They also played the Blue Moon song on Wednesday, but didn't on Saturday.

TBH I thought it was great. Last Wednesday, about 5 mins before KO, the lights went out and I think a lot of people thought that there was a power- cut. Then the advertising hoardings lit-up and a Blue Moon was projected on to the East Stand. The music kicked in shortly after. I thought it was awesome. Highlight of the night for me. I thought it was atmopsheric. Eery at first but then with the music and the Blue Moon image, with the crowd reraction, it all became rather dramatic. I hope they do it at all night matches. It certainly meets my approval. I think the Blue Moon chant fits it perfectly. I just hope they drop the Blue Moon soundtrack that they used on Wednesday.

The atmosphere in the stadium needs to improve (I understand you have the same problems at Old Trafford

) and I believe that what happened on Wednesday did help to lift the crowd.


The City fans on the forums seem to like it. It appears that senior management (Khaldoon Al Mubarak, Garry Cook, Vicky Whatshername and others) are determined to improve the matchday expereince, as well as listening to what fans want. I bet you wish you supported a club that treats its fans so well. I doubt I would be happier supporting any other club.

Feedback from fans recently led to sultanas being removed fromn the Balti pies. That's fan power




I can imagine you appreciate it as you used to go and watch Manchester Storm at the MEN on a regular basis, mate.






TBH I thought Onouha should have been booked. However, I also thought Beletti should have been sent-off for the challenge that ended Wayne Bridge's contribution. Beletti could also have been booked for a foul shortly after he received his first yellow, and he could have been given a yellow card for the way he kicked away the ball when we were awarded a free-kick.

I know, we are so fickle.

There are so many things I wanted to post in the last couple of weeks but my 8-month old daughter has been poorly. I hope that's acceptable to you.

They still do it at the ice hockey mate. Altrincham Ice Dome these days though. Good to see you are admitting to the poor atmosphere at city games. Seems a strange way to improve it though. Will be interesting to see if it has the same effect against when you play some of the lesser sides.

FC do a good job at listening to the fans.

They're the Phoenix now

I cannot think of many football grounds in this country that have a 'good atmosphere'.

As long as we stay away from those 'fans' they use at Craven Cottage, I will be happy.




We will see in the first week of January






They're not a football club though. They're a pressure / protest group

I still sing 'Lets go Storm.'

Might lend my giant foam hand to a city fan now though to take to Eastlands.



Sadly I agree with the above. I will let the rest of your post slide.

Really impressed with Nigel De Jong, looking like a very good player.

Still Think City need two quality midfielders and another striker to challenge for the title. I dont like Santa Cruz or Robinho.