I just read the interview with Ben Flower, he's upset at losing his starting number.

I know he's been injured alot, but even when he's been fit I've never been overly impressed with him. If you ask me to pick out what I remember from him last season, it's him pulling his face, moaning at the ref looking for penalties, I can't remember any game he's stood out and lead the team, or even broken a tackle.

The report says his contract runs out at the end of next year, given his form, and age, I'd say he needs an incredible season for the club to consider a new deal.

I can’t see how Flower loses his starting jersey and Clubb keeps his. IMO he is right to have the hump about it, hopefully it puts some more fire in his belly for next season.

I don't doubt that he works his socks off but last year he was charging in with everything he had and getting mullered each time. Absolutely mullered. Not to mention his injury record.

He probably deserves to feel a bit put out that Tony Clubb replaces him but that aside I don't think he has much cause to complain.

I think its a sign its likely his last year here. The club are (rightly) putting more focus on size in the forward pack and Lenagan in his recent interview has hinted at more changes in the squad for 2021 with a good few players off contract - Flower, Leuluai, O'Loughlin, Burgess, Hankinson, Hastings (if he gets here in the first place!). Gildart could go as well.

Lets hope it gives him the motivation to have a big year.

Big year for Ben. Needs to do his talking on the pitch. It can go one of two ways:
-he’ll return to past form and show his dip in form is due to niggling injuries
-he’ll show us he’s past it and needs to be moved on.

I fear it’s the latter. We all have a shelf life. His, as Wigan player night just be up.

I guess time will tell. He now has the opportunity to blow the others out of the water with amazing performances. Let’s hope he finds great form.

It’s a good reality check for him. No one at the club is Indispensable

Not disagreeing with you and I hope you’re right but I fear his,and certainly Clubbs time are near the end at Wigan,sport isn’t a place for sentiment as I fear was the case with clubb.

Navarette is another who should be looking for another club in the coming months as he’s had worse games than good and it’s time to move on.

Likewise I feel Flower, Clubb and Navaratte’s time at the club are coming to a natural end. I’d release Nav first out of the 3 as despite his promise and obvious talent he just doesn’t show it anywhere near enough for this level. Clubb isn’t good enough anymore and for him to get a 2yr deal last season was astounding. Flower for me has been in the decline since the GF incident, he’s never been the same after that and lost his aggression. Out of all 3 Flower is my favourite but unfortunately it’s time to move on.

As always I’m open for my mind to be changed and all 3 have the opportunity to do that in 2020 for a lot of fans.

Flower doesnt seem to have any drive in his legs. Theres not much wrong with what hes doing but his legs seem weak and he rarely managed to go forward after impact. More leg work needed in the off season. If he can fix that then he can be the best prop at the club again.

I think this is more to do with the way he and the other props were told to play.for years under Waney. It’s clear that their objective was to defend defend defend and if they take the ball up, hit the ground upon collision. Flower does that very well. He rarely get put on his back and lands knees and elbows, getting a quicker play the ball. Technically he’s excellent but I too would love to see our props make ground after impact.

However flower does land on his belly most of the time and produces quick plays which result on a roll on with speed. It’s what happens AFTER that which is the problem.

Ben Flower is fine. He’s not going to terrorise teams but when fully fit (which isn’t enough) he’s a more than capable superleague prop. Saints fans still holding grudges from 2014 bagging him aren’t going to alter my view. It’s probably a sign that our prop forward options have been reasonably limited these past 7 or 8 years but Flower has been our best over that period and he’s been good enough to win 3 superleague titles, a challenge cup and a WCC. He wasn't a Ricky Bibey or Ryan Bailey style hanger on in those successes either, he was consistently our best prop in those seasons.

Fingers crossed for an injury free year for him. When he has those he’s a good player.