Are our forwards, especially our props, big enough?

This is the number one reason we struggled at times against lower-ranked teams last season. Wane and Lenagen have admitted themselves this lack of size cost us in World Club Challenge against Roosters.

Do people think the lack of size and the lack of a house prop will cost us again this season?

Thanks.

It won't be big enough on Sunday,and your backs won't be fast enough either, Leythers to win by at least 10 -20 points.

I agree with Mr Caroli....


We are too small, too slow, have a e coach and a chairman who won't spend.. We will be lucky to make the top 4 .....

No.
We need a Masoe or a Feka to sort us wimps out.
I'm comfortable with myself therefore I know size everything.

I posted this on the Leeds board a couple of months back.

Number of league games a prop made 100m or more in the 2015 season

Mossop - 4
Crosby - 5
Tautai - 5
Flower - 1
Sutton - 2
Clubb - 3

Compare to others

Peacock - 25
Cuthbertson - 19
Garbutt - 6 (in just 10 league games)

Walmsley - 25
Amor - 11

Hill - 25
Simms - 9

Not an attempt at a wind-up just generally pointing out what I feel is an issue for you and one I've seen talked about a bit on this board before.

I know Wigan use their 2nd rows and Centres a lot for carries and metres but don't you feel you should be getting more 100m+ games from your props? Sarginson and Gelling made more metres in 2015 than Mossop yet they only played 19 & 18 games respectively compared to Mossop's 26 which just seems wrong.

Surely they're situations such as weather, opposition, injuries to your starting centres, score line during games, whether you're home or away that you should go with props doing more metres than what their doing. Not necessarily 20+ games like Walmsley or Peacock but surely a least one prop should have at least 10-12 100m+ games in him a season for a top side.

Whilst the home record was great, is one of the reasons why your away form struggled because away from home a big metre making prop is particularly valuable?

Regarding situations and opposition. Leeds were knackered in the forwards in the 2nd half of the GF yet your starting props made 8 carries each for 60m+ and 50m+ respectively. A Walmsley or Hill with the numbers they do could've been too much for Leeds to deal with when we were clinging on.

Do you think any of your guys can up their numbers significantly or a new guy has to come in?

You do realise guys like Peacock, Hill and Walmsley are making double the carries and playing much longer minutes then our four do don't you?

It'd be interesting to look at the minutes played, total number of carries and average metres per carry of each of those forwards you've listed above.

Wigan use their props differently to a lot of other teams. They rotate evenly between them and not one of them carries the burden. They were poor for the majority of the season but when they got their heads straight at the end of the year teams struggled to go with them.

Walmsley is playing much longer minutes? Seriously? And if they're making more carries surely that makes them more effective props?

As The Printer said, Waney likes his centres and back rowers to make the meters.
SW uses his props to make multiple tackles. For the most part of most games Wigan put three men into a tackle. Especially so when opposition props go up the middle.
Very often in the last 10 minutes of a game Wigan are still putting three men into the tackles. That's how they use their energy.

As for individual performances by our props, we are expecting better seasons from most of them.
Flower was missing from the start of last season. He will start this season.
Mossop had a poor start after his shoulder sugery, He will be far better this season.
Clubb was excellent last time and will be this.
Crosby played with an injury all last season, now had surgery back in March we're told.
Tautai has to improve this season, was very hit and miss last year.
Sutton was good when played, if Tautai is poor again then Ryan will replace him IMO.

As for tactics, away from home Wigan lose their power on the McIlorum interchange. When sub'd by a man from the bench who isn't up with the pace of the game we lose.
When sub'd by a man who started the half and is up with the pace of the game we win.
In the GF, when Micky M came back on for the last 20 mins we faded yet again. Couldn't even get out of our half and never ever looked like scoring.
Waney prefers to use a sub from the bench hence we can't win away from the DW

So by this reckoning Wigan's props should be making considerable more tackles than other SL props?

I know they do that's why I pointed out that you use your centres and 2nd rowers a lot more and that you only got 8 carries each from your starting props in the GF.....question is if this is what's costing you getting over the line in competitions. A big metre making prop has always been a key ingredient to a side IMO and Wigan and going without it seems.

Do you not think that the opposition props are saved some of their energy though by not having the Wigan props run at them that often.

Most opposition props (Peacock excepted) are interchanged by the clock, as are Wigan's.
A lack of energy doesn't seem to come into it.
Although many think Wigan's back rowers appear small ie Farrell and Bateman, hit ups are also made by the likes of Gelling and Joel T who are big men as well as having a bit of pace, certainly Joel anyway.
There are many reasons why Waney goes wide with his centres and back rowers doing the meters. Perhaps one of those many reasons is it tires out the opposition centres and back rowers who when having to defend their own line out wide against Wigan, fail.
Wigan wingers (Charnley, Burgess, Richards & Manfredi)) for the past few seasons have scored many tries out wide when the opposing centre and/or wingman got his instantly made decision wrong. Fatigue has to be a factor.
Wigan's problem to me as I mentioned above, isn't the style of game played by the props it's the McIlorum interchange. That hasn't worked for a season and a half now, whether it'll be changed this coming season remains to be seen. I very much doubt it though.