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| FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Rule Debate & Clarification |
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Is it possible to have a reasoned debate on here without, (a) The questions sounding like sour grapes?, and (b) Vitriolic fans of opposing clubs avoiding the subject and merely de-railing the thread?
Anyhow, here goes.
Question 1 -
In the act of being tackled, the ball becomes loose, be it forward, sideways or backwards. Is this only a knock-on when the ball travels forward as there have been numerous instances in games this season (for all teams) where the referee automatically blows for a knock-on, irrespective of the direction of the loose ball. For recent footage, see the incident on Saturday where McIlorum lost the ball in the tackle on the Leeds line, but, the ball clearly travelled backwards under his body.
Question 2 - "Tackled in the air"
If 2 players from opposing teams contest a ball in the air, i.e. both players feet are off the ground, why is this deemed to be a penalty if the opposing players hands touch the body of the receiving player? Surely, its quite difficult to make a tackle if both players are in mid-air? Given that the winning try was scored from a situation where the whole body weight of the attacking player was used to shift the defending player out of the way somewhat makes a mockery of this.
Question 3 - Video Ref
Who can summon the on field referee to consult the video ref and under what circumstances? Are we to assume that any one of 26 players on the park can demand that the ref can pass on a decision if a player wants him too - irrespective of whether the debate is a scoring play or not?
Question 4 - "Ball carrying arm touches the floor constitutes 'tackled' "
In the dying embers of the game, "that" kick was eventually collected on the wing and the ball was flung back in play but the touch judge and linesman deemed the tackle to be complete - why would that be?
Like I said, reasoned arguments would be welcomed, others will be totally ignored.
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| Quote: Abe Frohman "Is it possible to have a reasoned debate on here without, (a) The questions sounding like sour grapes?, and (b) Vitriolic fans of opposing clubs avoiding the subject and merely de-railing the thread?
Anyhow, here goes.
Question 1 -
In the act of being tackled, the ball becomes loose, be it forward, sideways or backwards. Is this only a knock-on when the ball travels forward as there have been numerous instances in games this season (for all teams) where the referee automatically blows for a knock-on, irrespective of the direction of the loose ball. For recent footage, see the incident on Saturday where McIlorum lost the ball in the tackle on the Leeds line, but, the ball clearly travelled backwards under his body.
Question 2 - "Tackled in the air"
If 2 players from opposing teams contest a ball in the air, i.e. both players feet are off the ground, why is this deemed to be a penalty if the opposing players hands touch the body of the receiving player? Surely, its quite difficult to make a tackle if both players are in mid-air? Given that the winning try was scored from a situation where the whole body weight of the attacking player was used to shift the defending player out of the way somewhat makes a mockery of this.
Question 3 - Video Ref
Who can summon the on field referee to consult the video ref and under what circumstances? Are we to assume that any one of 26 players on the park can demand that the ref can pass on a decision if a player wants him too - irrespective of whether the debate is a scoring play or not?
Question 4 - "Ball carrying arm touches the floor constitutes 'tackled' "
In the dying embers of the game, "that" kick was eventually collected on the wing and the ball was flung back in play but the touch judge and linesman deemed the tackle to be complete - why would that be?
Like I said, reasoned arguments would be welcomed, others will be totally ignored.'"
A couple of your very own are very good at that on other teams forums. Stones / Glass houses etc. | | |
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| Quote: Abe Frohman "Is it possible to have a reasoned debate on here without, (a) The questions sounding like sour grapes?, and (b) Vitriolic fans of opposing clubs avoiding the subject and merely de-railing the thread?
Anyhow, here goes.
Question 1 -
In the act of being tackled, the ball becomes loose, be it forward, sideways or backwards. Is this only a knock-on when the ball travels forward as there have been numerous instances in games this season (for all teams) where the referee automatically blows for a knock-on, irrespective of the direction of the loose ball. For recent footage, see the incident on Saturday where McIlorum lost the ball in the tackle on the Leeds line, but, the ball clearly travelled backwards under his body.
Question 2 - "Tackled in the air"
If 2 players from opposing teams contest a ball in the air, i.e. both players feet are off the ground, why is this deemed to be a penalty if the opposing players hands touch the body of the receiving player? Surely, its quite difficult to make a tackle if both players are in mid-air? Given that the winning try was scored from a situation where the whole body weight of the attacking player was used to shift the defending player out of the way somewhat makes a mockery of this.
Question 3 - Video Ref
Who can summon the on field referee to consult the video ref and under what circumstances? Are we to assume that any one of 26 players on the park can demand that the ref can pass on a decision if a player wants him too - irrespective of whether the debate is a scoring play or not?
Question 4 - "Ball carrying arm touches the floor constitutes 'tackled' "
In the dying embers of the game, "that" kick was eventually collected on the wing and the ball was flung back in play but the touch judge and linesman deemed the tackle to be complete - why would that be?
Like I said, reasoned arguments would be welcomed, others will be totally ignored.'"
I'm going to quote the official RFL Rules here.
This is open to much interpretation. As most tackles in modern rugby league can contain 4 or 5 players [including the player in possession] it can be very difficult to determine the trajectory of the ball when it comes loose. It seems that unless the ball is clearly stolen or clearly thrown backwards, this is deemed a knock on, or 'loose carry'. The ball doesn't need to touch the floor to be deemed a knock on. Regards the McIllorum incident, the ball appears to move backwards as the player is moving forwards, the first instance is most likely the ball moving forward. Again, this is very difficult to determine and is open to wide interpretation as the speed of play, and the fact the player is obscuring the ball makes it difficult to determine.
2. Quote: Abe Frohman "Mid-air tackle 1. (b) It is illegal to tackle an opposing player attempting to field a kick whilst the player is in mid-air. The catcher must have returned to the ground before being tackled. (See Section 15.).'"
It's very difficult to determine what is a tackle, especially when both players are in mid air. If you see the penalty given against Dominic Manfredi on Ryan Hall early in the game, you will see a perfect example of this. Both players jump and contest the ball. However, as Manfredi wraps his arms around Hall in mid air, he is deemed to be attempting to tackle the player. If two players are jumping to contest the ball and the trajectory of one player obstructs another, this is not a clear penalty. However, if one of the players are deemed to have deliberately used their body weight to obstruct the other, rather than contest the ball, this would be a penalty.
3. I'm unable to find any exact rule to explain this. As far as I'm aware, only the referee can request assistance from the video referee. I believe this is only when there has been an incident or to clarify a restart. For example, a player is injured in a tackle and play has stopped. The referee can ask the video referee to check the tackle for foul play. The video referee cannot be summoned to check an incident that happened prior to the current play. For example, the Ben Westwood punch on Blake Green in 2013. For restarts, the referee can summon the video referee to check how to restart the game. The best example for this would be the Aaron Murphy knock on in the Wigan vs Huddersfield semi final. The ref gave a drop out, but asked the video referee to check this. Players cannot summon the video referee.
4. Quote: Abe Frohman "2. A player in possession is tackled
I'm unsure what you mean when you say the tackle was deemed to be complete. I've watched it back and play was stopped on the basis of a forward pass, not a completed tackle. Basically, you're tackled when you've stopped moving with an opposition player holding you and the ball carrying arm has hit the floor. If you've stopped moving without anyone touching you, you're not tackled. If you're still moving forward with a player hold of you, you're not tackled.
That's my interpretation...
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