Is he guilty of trying[i too[/i hard? I came on here to put in a good word for him after tonights game as whenever I see him he's probably the hardest working guy on the field for you guys, he never seems to stop. But then he goes and does something I also see him doing a lot, which is pulling a Ritchie Mathers and going for a brain explosion, that pass was nonsensical. What do you guys think of him? Is he more of a help or a hindrance?

Sarginson's problem is the same as Tomkins' problem. He's playing in a side whose tactical emphasis is high-octane "shoot out" rugby. Most teams attack from the inside out - or, from the forwards to the edges. Wigan attack from the edges straight out to the wings. Do not pass to the forward pack. Do not collect £200 etc.

Because Wigan either don't possess a functioning pack of forwards or use such solely as an adjunct to its emphasis on attacking through the backs the likes of Sarginson and Tomkins see a disproportionately high amount of ball (compared with, say, someone such as Mark Percival at Saints).

Wigan's centres have a much greater responsibility heaped on them. They are crucial to the team's chances of success and should either of them have an off day things go south in a big way.

Wigan's particular style of play is absolutely merciless against teams who are either soft in the middle or have weak defenders outside. One missed tackle and the next minute you're kicking off for the restart. Sadly, this is the defacto standard for all but the top four sides - which means Wigan get plenty of opportunity to do what they do best.

I mean, I genuinely do have a lot of respect for the way the club has developed its back division and the attacking brio it has instilled in players from the first team down to the juniors. It really is a model for the other clubs to emulate.

The problem arrives when the other team doesn't miss tackles. Under normal circumstances you'd expect the playmakers to pull the ball in tighter and wait for the right opportunity to strike. Unfortunately, Wane seems to think that his players are sufficiently good that such conservatism (or call it - pragmatism) isn't necessary and business can carry on as usual.

It's at this point that players such as Sarginson and Tomkins come under enormous pressure. It's one thing to be the tip of the spear against an opponent whose defence leaks like a tea-bag. It's quite another thing entirely when you are constantly being smashed on or close to the advantage line. Worse still if you are behind on the scorecard. Given the amount of ball both Wigan centres see it really should come as no surprise that one or both court calamity in tough, physical games. Nerves stretch to breaking point and one of them is bound to try just that bit too hard and throw a pass which just isn't on.

If I were either Sarginson or Tomkins I'd be demanding to know why they are shouldering so much of the burden to win the game whilst the front six are - either by design or just a general lack of quality - twiddling their thumbs.

I certainly don't see Sarginson's current form as a true reflection of his worth. I mean, I think Mark Percival is a fantastic prospect who will doubtless go on to represent his country many times. But you put Percival in that Wigan side and place the same extreme demands on him to perform and he'd likely crumple also. It's too much responsibility for anyone. And both Sarginson and Tomkins look like players who've been crushed under the weight of it for a long and arduous season.

Good post. I find it hard to criticise Sarge for one lapse when he works so hard and does so much good stuff.

It's a good job Bowen didn't fling that pass, he'd have been summarily disembowelled on here.

I don't understand why he is so immune to criticism yet Bowen gets absolute hell.

His defense is terrible and his brain explosions and mistakes have cost us the challenge cup and a Wigan - Saints derby. If he had an Aussie accent he wouldn't stand a chance with our fans. Imagine if Bowen or Gelling had made those mistakes.

I think sargison is a victem of his own success with his performance last year for wigsn and england but he's not took it to the next level this year.

Id be more worried about SOL. He looks a shadow of the player he was and the injuries look to have taken its toll.

I don't think Sarge is immune from criticism, far from it, he's had plenty here. Especially on his defence. He had a couple of poor games, but was still one of our better performers last night in my view. As for the comparison with Bowen, if Bowen involved himself as much as Sarge does, maybe he'd be cut a bit more slack.

I think some of that Sarge incident lies with Charnley, it's a daft pass, but it wasn't a complete brain fast, they'd been passing it in their own 20 a few times. Charnley was completely switched off. You can't do that in sport.

Sarginsons fault pure and simple, stupid pass poorly executed how any of it was down to Charnley is beyond me...................

Because Wigan had done passes like that 5-6 times in the match. They were doing dangerous offloads in their own 20 frequently. The pass sat in front of Charnley and he was completely switched off.

Again, you don't switch off in your own 20. You be ready for the pass everytime even if it dosen't come to you. I'd say it's 70/30 Sarginson/Charnley. Sarge shouldn't have thrown the pass, but Charnley should have caught it since it wasn't a bad pass.

Leeds do it all the time, but they're expecting it so it's works every time. They're all tuned in and expecting as pass even if it's not the done thing.

Quote: Mugwump "Sarginson's problem is the same as Tomkins' problem. He's playing in a side whose tactical emphasis is high-octane "shoot out" rugby. Most teams attack from the inside out - or, from the forwards to the edges. Wigan attack from the edges straight out to the wings. Do not pass to the forward pack. Do not collect £200 etc. Because Wigan either don't possess a functioning pack of forwards or use such solely as an adjunct to its emphasis on attacking through the backs the likes of Sarginson and Tomkins see a disproportionately high amount of ball (compared with, say, someone such as Mark Percival at Saints). Wigan's centres have a much greater responsibility heaped on them. They are crucial to the team's chances of success and should either of them have an off day things go south in a big way. Wigan's particular style of play is absolutely merciless against teams who are either soft in the middle or have weak defenders outside. One missed tackle and the next minute you're kicking off for the restart. Sadly, this is the defacto standard for all but the top four sides - which means Wigan get plenty of opportunity to do what they do best. I mean, I genuinely do have a lot of respect for the way the club has developed its back division and the attacking brio it has instilled in players from the first team down to the juniors. It really is a model for the other clubs to emulate. The problem arrives when the other team doesn't miss tackles. Under normal circumstances you'd expect the playmakers to pull the ball in tighter and wait for the right opportunity to strike. Unfortunately, Wane seems to think that his players are sufficiently good that such conservatism (or call it - pragmatism) isn't necessary and business can carry on as usual. It's at this point that players such as Sarginson and Tomkins come under enormous pressure. It's one thing to be the tip of the spear against an opponent whose defence leaks like a tea-bag. It's quite another thing entirely when you are constantly being smashed on or close to the advantage line. Worse still if you are behind on the scorecard. Given the amount of ball both Wigan centres see it really should come as no surprise that one or both court calamity in tough, physical games. Nerves stretch to breaking point and one of them is bound to try just that bit too hard and throw a pass which just isn't on. If I were either Sarginson or Tomkins I'd be demanding to know why they are shouldering so much of the burden to win the game whilst the front six are - either by design or just a general lack of quality - twiddling their thumbs. I certainly don't see Sarginson's current form as a true reflection of his worth. I mean, I think Mark Percival is a fantastic prospect who will doubtless go on to represent his country many times. But you put Percival in that Wigan side and place the same extreme demands on him to perform and he'd likely crumple also. It's too much responsibility for anyone. And both Sarginson and Tomkins look like players who've been crushed under the weight of it for a long and arduous season.'" Saints missed more tackle as a percentage of tackles made than Wigan. The problem was Wigans error count of 14 to Saints 6 which meant that they had to make 90 more tackles. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11139

Quote: Mugwump "Sarginson's problem is the same as Tomkins' problem. He's playing in a side whose tactical emphasis is high-octane "shoot out" rugby. Most teams attack from the inside out - or, from the forwards to the edges. Wigan attack from the edges straight out to the wings. Do not pass to the forward pack. Do not collect £200 etc. Because Wigan either don't possess a functioning pack of forwards or use such solely as an adjunct to its emphasis on attacking through the backs the likes of Sarginson and Tomkins see a disproportionately high amount of ball (compared with, say, someone such as Mark Percival at Saints). Wigan's centres have a much greater responsibility heaped on them. They are crucial to the team's chances of success and should either of them have an off day things go south in a big way. Wigan's particular style of play is absolutely merciless against teams who are either soft in the middle or have weak defenders outside. One missed tackle and the next minute you're kicking off for the restart. Sadly, this is the defacto standard for all but the top four sides - which means Wigan get plenty of opportunity to do what they do best. I mean, I genuinely do have a lot of respect for the way the club has developed its back division and the attacking brio it has instilled in players from the first team down to the juniors. It really is a model for the other clubs to emulate. The problem arrives when the other team doesn't miss tackles. Under normal circumstances you'd expect the playmakers to pull the ball in tighter and wait for the right opportunity to strike. Unfortunately, Wane seems to think that his players are sufficiently good that such conservatism (or call it - pragmatism) isn't necessary and business can carry on as usual. It's at this point that players such as Sarginson and Tomkins come under enormous pressure. It's one thing to be the tip of the spear against an opponent whose defence leaks like a tea-bag. It's quite another thing entirely when you are constantly being smashed on or close to the advantage line. Worse still if you are behind on the scorecard. Given the amount of ball both Wigan centres see it really should come as no surprise that one or both court calamity in tough, physical games. Nerves stretch to breaking point and one of them is bound to try just that bit too hard and throw a pass which just isn't on. If I were either Sarginson or Tomkins I'd be demanding to know why they are shouldering so much of the burden to win the game whilst the front six are - either by design or just a general lack of quality - twiddling their thumbs. I certainly don't see Sarginson's current form as a true reflection of his worth. I mean, I think Mark Percival is a fantastic prospect who will doubtless go on to represent his country many times. But you put Percival in that Wigan side and place the same extreme demands on him to perform and he'd likely crumple also. It's too much responsibility for anyone. And both Sarginson and Tomkins look like players who've been crushed under the weight of it for a long and arduous season.'" Saints missed more tackle as a percentage of tackles made than Wigan. The problem was Wigans error count of 14 to Saints 6 which meant that they had to make 90 more tackles. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11139

I'd agree with this. It's wasn't great, but Charnely wasn't exactly looking for/expecting the pass.

And of course, if Sarge had been looking too, that would have helped...

Sarginson probably would have scored if he hadn't have been illegally shoved to the side after his kick (the one where Masoe ran back and picked it up).

If a contract for Sarg really is on offer from Bath/whoever, he should sign it at the first opportunity. Who would want him on current form?
One good game for England does not make him a top player...
Just my view.