Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"Dave, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, the comparison to last season is not relevant as there are too many variables (and that's leaving aside the fact that your assertion that he is playing better is purely subjective in the first instance. '"
First of all it is only your opinion that the comparison is not relevant and that is in my opinion a ridiculous stance to take because players performances are compared season on season all the time. Of course there are variables one season to the next and I am am saying ONE of them, the change in the captaincy situation is a possible reason for his improved form.
I am sure the rest of your post will now assume your opinion the comparison is invalid is an incontrovertible fact and argue from there...
Quote PhuzzyI could just as easily argue that he was, in real terms, better last season as he performed well in a hugely underperforming team. However that is an altogether different argument so we'll put that to one side.) The only valid comparison you can make, if you are claiming he performs better without the captaincy, as you were in your original post, is between his performances this season with and without the captaincy.'"
No that is your opinion once again that is the only valid comparison. The fact he is not captain every game and is part of a team will mean IMO the pressure is off even when he [iis[/i captain. He is part of a team not the one sole captain and that is true when he is captain for the day. It's a big change in the way things work.
What you also forget is all things being equal he will play more games not as captain given there are five of them so statistically you can't point to the odd game where he is captain and plays well as definitive proof it doesn't affect him one way or the other. He'd have to play another full season as captain for your point to have any statistical validity.
Quote Phuzzy You try to make the point that if there are 2 variables then either can be a cause. For someone claiming to know about cause and effect you are so far off the mark as to be embarrassing! If you are able to narrow the variables to exclude one then that [ucannot[/u be the cause.'"
Which you can't do despite your best attempt to do so immediately above.
Quote PhuzzyWe are able to compare performances this season with and without the captaincy, and, assuming you agree there is no difference (which I will as you haven't attempted to argue to the contrary) we can theoretically rule that out as a possible cause! '"
As explained above - no we can't. Not only are you not so hot on science your grasp of statistics leaves a lot to be desired as well
Quote PhuzzyI actually wouldn't go that far personally as I believe everything can have an effect, no matter how small. I find it interesting that you feel the removal of the captaincy, in the case of O'Loughlin, can have a major effect on his form but moving half way across the world, being without your family, coming across with an injury and effectively having no pre-season etc, as in the case of Roberts, should have no effect. You do like to argue to convenience, don't you Dave! In fact, it might be illuminating, in the light of what you're attempting to argue here, to pull up the Roberts thread, don't you think?'"
The reason I argued against the Roberts situation was because his family arrived well before the end of the season and his form didn't change. He also seems to think he's better this season for a number of playing related reasons which suggests the family factor was not are huge as you seem to think it was. The reason I argue the captaincy issue for Lockers could be a major factor is because it's an accepted truth in sport in general captaincy can affect players in a major way.
This is where our knowledge of sport lets us look at the variables and use our experience to suggest what may or may not be a major factor and what probably won't be.
Quote PhuzzyBy the way, I am not arguing that the 'leadership group' is not a positive move that can perhaps be seen in the teams performances or, indeed, the performances of individuals both among and outside that group. However to claim, as you did in your original post, that losing the captaincy is one of the two [umost important[/u reasons for him performing 'better' this season when things like better fitness, better team performances, higher workload from the rest of the team (particularly the pack), improved tactics/gameplan, or, most importantly the fact that he's playing in a winning team don't, in your private scheme of things, warrant a mention is ridiculous; as is your assertion that losing the captaincy is one of only 2 things that has changed! '"
The change in captaincy happened to Lockers. It could therefore be a factor. And as captaincy can affect players in a big way it could be a big factor. It is therefore not unreasonable to suggest this was the case here. For some reason you seem to think it is.
Quote PhuzzyAs an aside, Dave, I mentioned the kit, hairstyle and age to illustrate that any number of things have changed that weren't neccessarily major reasons for, or even directly related to, his playing form and that just because they COULD be a reason, without a direct link it was overstating the case to claim it WAS a reason. I was, of course, being facetious. I apologise. I didn't realise you'd had a humour bypass!
'"
With hindsight it was actually very useful because what you illustrated is that we must always remember while many things change not everything that changes is relevant. We must use our common sense and experience of the field we are discussing to dismiss things as being highly unlikely to be reasons for what we see.
To conclude I would like a an answer to a very simple question.
Is it possible for a players form to be affected by the being captain or not? Yes or No?
Dave
