What if a half back drop kicks it sideways, the winger is in acres of space, scores. Bring it back for a knock on?

I'm being pedantic of course. But come on! This is a discussion board - at least provide an argument. Thurston grubbered thru for one of the tries in origin on wednesday. He took that one on the half volley too - knock on wasn't mentioned at all. Grey area - as highlighted by Cummings comments the other night. Expect McGuire did it just to exploit the inconsistent rule book. What a cheat :-s

There is no grey area where knock-ons are concerned. Whatever Eddie and Stevo or even Stuart Cummins say, a knock-on is a knock-on.

An alien arrives in Wigan. He's heard about how good wigan are at rugby league, but doesn't know the rules. How would you explain what a knock on is?

(repeat for drop kick)

Just wait until the new era that Cummins has just ushered in gets going - when every player who drops the ball then shoes it forward and tries to claim it was a drop-kick. That'll confuse your alien alright.

Tempted to say abolish the half-volleyed grubber (since its a knock on by that logic), but then its quite an attractive skill (as McGuire demonstrated last friday). Guess referees, as in the case of foul or dangerous play, need to make a call on intent. I.e. Did he intend kicking that or was it an consequence of dropping the ball? Obvious in most cases (like your prop example), not so last friday imo.

Incidentally, I wouldn't wish even a wigan fan try explain the rules to an alien. I have enough issues with these Aussie Rules loving victorians.

When I play rugby at the weekend, I think I might roll the ball behind the defensive line, chase it, then kick it, score the try, and claim it is a drop kick.

Not sure anyone is suggesting that my friend. That would clearly be a knock on. Try it anyway. See how you get on fella. And get yourself down to the local debating team immediately. You'd be a shoe-in

Just like Mcguire's, in effect thats exactly what he did, I just exaggerated it to prove a point

IMO it was a consequence of dropping the ball. My question is, would you have the same argument if say...Kirke, Ablett etc: did the same thing? I think you're only questioning it because it was McGuire, and it's more likely he meant to drop kick the ball hence back up your claim.

p.s I still think it was a knock on.

I have E mailed RFL expressing my puzzlement at Stuart Cummings interpretation and asking for a detailed explanation of it. I have also asked for a detailed public explanation to be made as this needs to be cleared up so that all levels of the game know the rul;es of the game as understood by the RFL officials

I'm no sherlock holmes but i think proof needs a collective weight of evidence. Whether McGuire knocked on or not was clearly ambiguous, hence the need to go to the video ref and the fact we are having this very discussion. Wigan got the rub of the green and did very well to get a win out of it. Together with the point at Headingley, those fine measures could make a big difference in the long run. These things tend to even themselves out tho. Wigan Wire final with Wire taking the honours imo



Of course - same argument for any player.

IMO the ball came out of his hands, went forward and hit the floor, knock on. Its irrelevant whether he attempted to kick it or not.

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McRhino

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he attempted the kick to cover up a knock-on, any player would have done the same but its still a knock-on

cant see what all the fuss is about

So a player loses control of the ball it goes forward and hits the ground. The player strikes at the ball with his foot. How high does the ball have to bounce before you give a knock on? or how long do you wait?

If he kicks it side ways then hes not knocked on as he???

The arguement was that McGuire dropped the ball!
The reason it went to the video ref was because the ref didnt see what had happened clearly. If his foot was making contact with the ball as it hit the floor then play on but there was clear air between the foot and the ball on the floor!

Woah! What, less obsessed than checking up how many posts someone has done?

Wait, you haven't got men watching my house have you?

If this intrusion is in reference to my suggestion you'd be cack in a debating team I apologise. You'd be awesome in one. In wigan

I think the difference here is that McGuire knocked on realised and tried to kick it to make it look like he was kicking as Tomkins grabs his arms he was probably going to grubber it through Tomkins gets him and he knocks on and still kicks it and tries to con the referee (like anyone would not taking any moral highground here). The fact is that anywhere else on the pitch if that was checked would also not be given as he knocked on trying to kick due to Tomkins doing his job. Its a massive grey area at the minute but I think a little sense has to be applied. If he had done it 20 metres out then fair enough he could claim he was going for a drop goal and the try should have been given but when hes 5 metres out and it would have taken a miracle to get a drop goal from the angle he was at then its clear that was never his intention and there should be no try given.

Dont forget Sam was cheating and should have been penalised for making a tackle! Leave them to it with Cas and Saints. Clearly we are getting everything our way this season. You only have to look at the penalty counts in games and the number of bans given out whilst identical offences are not charged to see its clear the RFL are in our back pockets. After all Super League needs a strong Wigan

Wow no need to be so touchy, was only joking my friend. You are obsessed with Wigan though, as your profile proves, I dont blame you to be honest, after all we are the most decorative, successful club in the world.

The only real issues here are that:

a. Leeds would have won
b. They were playing Wigan
C. It was Danny M's mistake
d. Sam T tackled him

Remove these variables and no one would be discussing it!

Correct, just like if Sam didnt play for Wigan he wouldnt get boo'ed..............

Point a being the crucial one, in a season of dismal averageness (through a combination of several factors, mainly self inflicted) we need every league point available. We certainly dont need a vital try denied through lack of knowledge - by 2 professional refs.

The other points you make are irrelevant, but do back up my suspicions that despite Saints & Wire being way superior, most pie fans fear Leeds the most. Just as when we were good, Wigan were our bogie team.

Nope. No fear at all for Leeds, anyone who can play rugby without getting sucked into a niggle-fest will beat Leeds easily.