Mago never plays any sort of minutes versus Saints.
Walters played a major role in the Keighran try and for me just needs more minutes on the park.
I’m a fan of Hill but I was very disappointed in him last night. He’s a big lad but seemed to be gasping for air after only a minute or so.
Byrne is a bit of a mystery. A huge lad but rarely makes it across the advantage line. Again I am a fan but he’s way behind Ellis, Thompson and Havard. He needs to really step if he is to retain his place in the starting 17.

To give Byrne a bit of leeway, I don’t think a bench spot suits him really. He’s a player suited to playing from the start, playing bigger minutes and doing his thing, which is to lead the defensive intent. I also think he’s wrestling a bit with the disciplinary issues and trying to figure out how he can impact games legally.

On a side note, I thought Havard had his best game defensively in terms of intent. He was smashing people and that’s not always been the case. He put some real aggr On to his defence and if he adds that to his game, he’ll be an even better player. He needs to be less honest on the first try mind! I’d have taken the 10 minutes and tackled Welsby off the ball, I can’t lie!

Reading Peet's comments on how they set up with Ellis And Luke playing major roles in filling in for the missing 9 then it makes sense that the others were used sparingly

Walters needs to get far more aggression into his game, his yardage for a big man is poor. I am not sure that he is a second row forward more like a prop/13.

https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/4480 Stats from yesterday evening. Some good numbers by the middles of both teams.

https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/4480 Stats from yesterday evening. Some good numbers by the middles of both teams.

Nsemba was lifting people off the ground with the ferocity of his defence at times.

It was a bad miss by him for one of the Saints tries however generally he was an absolute menace in defence last night.

Walters needs time. He’s not had a great start to his Wigan career but there is still time. I do worry that the new rules go somewhat against him and his size. Nsemba is a big boy too but looks more athletic I think Walters is a bit less agile and is struggling to adapt to the lower tackle height and the knock on implications of it, ie quicker ptb’s.

I think that is a fair point Steve. One thing I thought Peet got wrong was the use of Farrimond and Farrell at hooker, I would have preferred Faz in at dummy half when attacking Saints and vice versa when we were coming out of our own half. Tying Farrimond up cut down our attacking options.

Yes that really didn’t work did it.

Smith was an easy target when JF was at the play the ball compounded by the lack of French or Field as he was often our only play making option.

Smith did very well a couple of times on the left edge when he could have got smashed particularly on the last tackle but used great feet and eyes up play to create space and put his strike edge players into open ground.

Last night felt a bit like the end for Hampshire at Wigan. If you’re not getting a game with 2 FB/HB options out, along with 3 hookers, you’re probably not going to see much more action.

Good.

I still think the French injury is the big story from last night. If it is 8 weeks Wigan will be hoping to get him back a couple of games before the playoffs. Not ideal as I think a big reason for our success last year was the continuity in the spine in the last 8 weeks or so.

Just a reminder that no matter how well you go throughout the year - if you get a big injury to a key player at the wrong time then you're at risk in the couple of games that really matter.

IF everything goes to plan re. French's recovery it's still going to be touch and go to get him fit for the play-offs, he'll have max two games before the play-offs, not ideal and a massive couple of months for Farrimond coming up

We are in a good place so far, four points clear with a game in hand. We 'should' be too strong for Hull FC away next week.

No doubt we will have challenges in the coming weeks: Wire at home. Two matches in one week (of which one is Leigh).

Hopefully Field is back soon (what is the timescale for him)?

The push on Farrell, you've got to be having a laugh. He comes across into Welsby's path and tries to block him from getting near the ball and it's a collision. He's lucky he didn't get pinged for obstruction though I thought the ref came to the best decision which was, nob all in it. Play on. Can't believe people are acting like Welsby has done anything wrong there. What is he supposed to do? Give up on the ball cos someones got in his way?

I thought Moore was pretty crap and missed a lot, the one where he said the high shot on Lees was accidental head clash (which it wasn't) and play on (since when btw?) was a shocker that led to the charge down and led to your try. However, I don't want to focus on him in general, as I thought it was largely a great game and rather than him costing us the game, it was some really dumb rugby from us at key times. As well as Eckersley taking the game by the scruff of the neck and coming up with some brilliant stuff. I'd also much rather he let more go like he did last night than not. The problem is that it's pretty ridiculous when you only decide to start letting stuff go half way through the game, after dishing out a sinbin in the 1st minute! Can't fathom Wigan fans thinking we got the rub of the green though. I know we're all a bit biased, but that's ridiculous to me

We might have had the first choice spine available but it's a bit dim to be acting like that tells the story. The best halfbacks in the world (which they're obviously not) can't do anything behind a beaten pack and the vast majority of our first choice pack was out. I said when we were lining up at the start that your team looked miles bigger than we did, and it showed with how much possession and territory you had. I thought we did well to stay in the game considering that. Fact is you probably SHOULD have scored 5 or 6 with the amount of field position you have but you didn't which shows the effect that missing your two main attackers had on you, as well as some fantastic defence by us. I think our defence in the face of that shows that we will be able to stay in the fight in any big, intense game which gives us a shot, terrible attack or not. Obviously won't be on the end of such a hiding in the forwards if we can get some bodies back either

Just to add, I don't really see us challenging for the silverware this year so you may be right about Wire being the biggest threat, but I don't think we are a million miles away and I think we'll be tough to beat in the big games. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see us turn Wire over in the play offs.

To be honest I'm thinking it will be a Wigan v Hull KR Grand Final this year.

Eh, I feel like we have been here many times before with HKR and they just lose it when it comes to the play offs. I wouldn't mind seeing them get over the hurdle and make it to a grand final but I can't see it. They are a bit like Warrington in the final in that it doesn't ever seem to matter how good of a year they've had, you just can't see them winning it

Would still be very surprised if it isn't once again a combination of Wigan/Saints/Warrington/Catalan.

I think next week for Saints will show where you are at the minute, no way were you going to put in a performance last night like you did against Cas but backing last night up against Wire is going to be a big ask at the best of times.
We all know you're getting Walmsley Batchelor and Knowles back in the next few weeks which will take a lot of pressure off your young lads, big question though is does Wellens know what your best 1 6 7 is because that's going to be the key to you doing anything this year, get that right and I certainly won't be writing Saints off

The final will be two from Wigan, Saints and Hull KR. Hull KR need to finish in the top 2 to make it.

And tell me how effective your attack has been when you've dominated position and possession? It's been the same story for a couple of years and that's not just my opinion but that of most of your fans too.

Us missing those chances has sweet FA to do with our playmakers being missing. We'd already made the breaks. I'll give you good defence on holding Wardle up (but the chance had still been made) but the 2 Marshall kicks were sitters by his normal standards. He nails that kick time and again and, if anything, the 2nd one last night was easier than most of those he's nailed. Farrimiond was in acres of space in mid field. A little dink towards the posts and it was a walk in.

I also think you're missing the fact that we had 1 half of our half back pairing spending much of the game having to cover for no hooker which would clearly impact on our attack which was still considerably better than yours.

And you need to read RedVee if you want a one eyed opinion on the referee mate. Or just read your own post. All the wrong decisions were against Saints were they? Really? I mean...really?

I think we will lose next week, and probably end up finishing 4th if I had to guess, so we'll certainly be doing it the hard way. Think the lads will be drained after last night, especially with only 1 bloody sub being used! Could change if we get any bodies back but I've not seen anything about that happening.
As for the best 1 6 and 7, I'm not sure what the answer is at all but I don't think Wellens will be dropping Lomax like he did with Dodd. I'd really like to see 1 Robertson 6 Welsby 7 Dodd 9 Clark with Burns on the bench actually getting a good rotation to see how that looks, but I don't see it happening. With Mbye back next week, I think we'll see Robertson miss out with Welsby back to fullback and Mbye/Lomax in the halves. It's tough to say after everything he's done for us, but this year seems a year too far for Lomax. He doesn't look effective in either attack or defence and is doing us more harm than good this year.

Not very effective obviously, but when the pack is there we spend the majority of the game camped in the oppos half so it has less of an effect generally.
As for the kicks, you also have to ask why he felt the need to try and attempt a cross field kick instead of going himself (he's very fast) or passing to somebody close by. I'd say that's down to what was very good, desperate scramble defence. Without that, its a simple inside pass and a try (like Welsbys)

But I was never trying to say our attack was effective, I was contending your point that you didn't see us as much of a threat as Wire, due to our attack and then used last night to back it up, but our attack not being effective didn't stop us winning in 2022, or winning the majority of our games last year etc and last night goes against the grain, generally, from what we are used to, which is playing most of the game in dominant field position.

As for the decisions, you've just made up what I've said and argued against it lmao. I never said all the wrong decisions were for Saints. I said he missed a lot and gave an example of one that was big and I gave another example that I said I thought he got right. I just had to laugh at somebody saying they thought we got the rub of the green

Firstly I said in the original post that it's been your problem for a couple of years so saying I was using last night to back it up is ridiculous. I used last night to illustrate how big the difference between the two is in that, even without 4 of our spine (including interchange hooker) we still had comfortably the better attack. Your returning players will give you better field position (I said that as well) but you haven't been able to do much with it for a fair while now, which is why I suggested you aren't the biggest threat this year (as you weren't last year). Carry on reading what you want though mate if it makes you feel better.

As for your comments on the Wigan fans opinion on the refereeing please point out all the examples you gave where he got it wrong in Saints' favour because I must have missed those. You're as one eyed as anyone else and you're complaining about it on a Wigan board to boot! Again, point out where you're complaining about the Saints' fans one eyed version of events on RedVee. You can't? What a surprise!